Yoghurt maker - choice, reviews, questions of operation (2)

Irus, you have Daxik, and Orion with a timer heats up more. Therefore, it turned out faster.

and they all heat differently?

and they all heat differently?

Of course. Dax warms better than other yogurt makers. Orion with a timer can overheat slightly, I don't think it's very critical, in a pinch, the cardboard will help to the bottom.

As far as I remember, GoodFood likes the temperature more gently. Try some of the Bulgarian starter cultures, they love a hotter environment.

Of course. Dax warms better than other yogurt makers. Orion with a timer can overheat slightly, I don't think it's very critical, in a pinch, the cardboard will help to the bottom.

As far as I remember, GoodFood likes the temperature more gently. Try some of the Bulgarian starter cultures, they love a hotter environment.

the cardboard will not fit in there, everything is so close to it with the lid: (there is cardboard from it in the package - just a circle) today I'll try

the cardboard will not fit in there, everything is so close to it with the lid: (there is cardboard from it in the package - just a circle) today I'll try

You can not put lids on the jars, only the common one from the yogurt maker. I have so. Then it will turn out to put cardboard boxes.

You can not put a lid on the jars, only the common one from the yogurt maker. I have so. Then it will turn out to put cardboard boxes.

Do you also have Orion-02? does the condensate get into the yogurt?

Oh-oh. Why bother closing the jars with lids? Do not do this! Have you read the instructions for the yogurt maker? Does it say to close the jars with lids?
Condensation will not fall, do not be afraid.

Do you also have Orion-02? does the condensate get into the yogurt?

No, I have a Clathronic. There are yogurt makers in which water is poured between the jars using technology. There, probably, you cannot do this, there will be a lot of condensation from the water. Isn't it like that? If not, then everything is fine. In some yogurt makers, they write in the instructions - to tighten the caps, in others they write - to put without closing. I did this and that, it turns out the same way. You experiment, twist half of the jars, and half not, and see how it looks and tastes. As you like it, do it.
For a long time, I have had an idea to build up somehow the side of my yogurt maker, so that you can put jars or a saucepan there that do not fit a little in height. So far I'm looking for a solution. When I invent something, I will write.
And so, in general, if you do not change anything, but put a piece of cardboard, then the lid will not fall off, but only slightly rise, right? There won't be a gap? For example, when the lid is put on, it sits on the yogurt maker by about 1 cm. Even if you put 2 perforated cardboard boxes, it will rise by 0.5 cm, and another 0.5 will remain. And even if the lid does not sit so tightly at the same time, there will be a slight loss of heat, but if you overheat, then maybe it will be good. In any case, no one will give you an unequivocal answer, there are no two identical yogurt makers, even if one yogurt maker is named, but each has its own copy, so whoever is lucky. So do not worry, experiment, put cardboard in 1 or 2 layers, or napkins, or cut thin plywood to size. Some silicone mat, which is put under the hot, stick in, a lot of options. Don't worry, measure the temperature in the jars. You can, so as not to transfer milk, pour warm water into them, put it in a yogurt maker for a couple of hours, then measure the temperature of the water. On the trail. day to plant something and do it again. And measure again. It's like at a military training ground - until you adapt, test after test.

Oh-oh. Why bother closing the jars with lids? Do not do this! Have you read the instructions for the yogurt maker? Does it say to close the jars with lids?
Condensation will not fall, do not be afraid.

You know, to tell the truth, in my yoghurt maker, the instructions say to close it with dyes, but at first I didn’t close it, as many write that they have it in the instructions not to close it. But now I began to close it (just like the girl was concerned about the problem not so much of condensation, but of the fact that from the non-sterile lid of the yogurt maker some byaks can get into my yogurt. I scald the jars and lids with boiling water before each entry, and the lid from yogurt makers - No. Already how many copies have been broken on the forum about the sterility of jars, spoons, lids, etc., that I don't want to start an argument again, it's just that I do this, and there everyone determines for himself.
By the way, the taste in jars with closed lids turns out to be an excellent product. I didn’t notice any difference compared to when I did it and didn’t cover it, but now it’s just calmer for me.

You know, to tell the truth, in my yoghurt maker, the instructions say to close it with dyes, but at first I didn’t close it, as many write that they have it in the instructions not to close it. But now I began to close it (just like the girl was concerned about the problem not so much of condensation, but of the fact that from the non-sterile lid of the yogurt maker some byaks can get into my yogurt. I scald the jars and lids with boiling water before each entry, and the lid from yogurt makers - No. Already how many copies have been broken on the forum about the sterility of jars, spoons, lids, etc., that I don't want to start an argument again, it's just that I do this, and there everyone determines for himself.
By the way, the taste in jars with closed lids turns out to be an excellent product. I didn’t notice any difference compared to when I did it and didn’t cover it, but now it’s just calmer for me.

but I didn’t sterilize it so I washed it well and that’s all .... but what about? I have a double boiler (standing idle) can sterilize them there
but they didn’t answer me, how many times can you use yogurt (obtained) as a ferment, and bacteria, as with each new batch, becomes less: (I’m like a child to restore the body (almost a year on antibiotics) - for myself it may do without bacteria
but no one will tell goodfoot to eat yogurt fitness is it somehow different from this (which I cooked)?
and imunalis is also yogurt, everything is also needed for manyuni

[Anya - Anna_SHVEC]

Anya - Anna_SHVEC
the instructions recommend re-fermenting no more than 2 times - this is theory. In practice, more will turn out (at least 3-4, although until the taste begins to deteriorate, it will be strongly sour). Personally, I do not re-ferment more than 2 times, but often 1 time. But if for manyuni and for medicinal purposes, then I would: 1... be sure to scald dishes (jars, lids, spoon) with boiling water; 2... every time I would cook from powder, or if you re-ferment - then only once (that is, you prepared a product from powder, left one jar at once, and take 2-3 tablespoons of it for re-fermentation for 1 liter of milk - but this jar is like and in general we store the prepared product for no more than 5 days; and for yourself, you can leave a jar for a new over-fermented product from this already over-fermented product)
3. cook a pure product - in the sense, do not add any sugar or anything else to milk, all this can be added immediately before use
Fitness yogurt is not suitable for manyuni !!!! only for myself
but imunalis and symbiotic GoodFood will be great (say, 2 weeks of imunalis, two weeks of symbiotic)
in general, a specific type of product is recommended to be consumed no longer than a month, then change to another
And I would close the jars with lids before putting them in the refrigerator. You just before you put anything to ferment, just wash the lid from the yogurt maker with hot water (BUT NOT BOTTOM) with washing, shake off the water from it - and that's all, but do not cover the jars with lids

[Anya - Anna_SHVEC]

Anya - Anna_SHVEC
Fitness yogurt is not suitable for manyuni !!!! only for myself

: girl_haha: I was interested in it for myself
but what about skim milk (store-bought) - it can be used, something in taste changes and from the whole milk from the village is brought to us through 2 bottoms, now I want to allocate a liter of milk from there for yogurt - but it is very fatty after boiling, I remove it to 150 gr. cream (fatty). And how to lower the fat content of a whole one - just dilute with boiled water?
and what other leavens are there?
I bought a starter culture and did not see what it needed to be stored in the refrigerator, and it lay in the bag for more than half a day, maybe because of this I got sour-curd yogurt, or all the same because of overheating

: girl_haha: I was interested in it for myself
but what about skim milk (store-bought) - it can be used, something in taste changes and from the whole milk from the village is brought to us through 2 bottoms, now I want to allocate a liter of milk from there for yogurt - but it is very fatty after boiling, I remove it to 150 gr. cream (fatty). And how to lower the fat content of a whole one - just dilute with boiled water?
and what other leavens are there?
I bought a starter culture and did not see what it needed to be stored in the refrigerator, and it lay in the bag for more than half a day, maybe because of this I got sour-curd yogurt, or all the same because of overheating

Half a day for sourdough without a refrigerator is not at all scary.
Do not try to dilute homemade milk with water. By skimming it off, you already remove most of the fat content. If you skim the cream thoroughly and completely, it will be just perfect. Then we must boil the milk, after skimming the cream, then cool it down, remove the crust carefully (this plus we removed the fat content a bit), and it will be it.

Well, my dears !!! Yesterday I bought homemade milk, and following my experience and your recommendations, I set the temperature to 39-40. Came in 4 hours - liquid. Eh, I was upset, but what is it, the ice cream did not work out, the yoghurt too, it stood for another 4 hours, lo and behold, IT'S SUPER !!!! and two jars are liquid. I turned off the device, left the liquid in it, and sent the rest to the refrigerator. In the morning I wake up and I have a gorgeous yogurt.

Well, my dears !!! Yesterday I bought homemade milk, and following my experience and your recommendations, I set the temperature to 39-40. Came in 4 hours - liquid. Eh, I was upset, but what is it, the ice cream did not work out, the yoghurt too, it stood for another 4 hours, lo and behold, IT'S SUPER !!!! and two jars are liquid. I turned off the device, left the liquid in it, and sent the rest to the refrigerator. In the morning I wake up and I have a gorgeous yogurt.

Well, that's great! With delicious yogurt you!

put the cardboard from the box of the yogurt maker was inside a circle just 2 mm thick on one side smooth white. measured the pace. after 40 minutes without it 40g. brown at the top 35, and white at the top 37. Put the ryazhenka GoodFood and how long should you keep it? 5-6 hours

here they stood for 6 hours, I measure the temperature in one jar 40.3 in the rest: 38.7, 37.6, 38.2, 38.5 I put two with water and this with a cardboard box but what happened then with my yogurt and again some of them good consistency and one straight with liquid
but how does the thermostat help if the unit itself heats everything in different ways in one place more powerful and in another less

Well, my dears !!! Yesterday I bought homemade milk, and following my experience and your recommendations, I set the temperature to 39-40. Came in 4 hours - liquid. Eh, I was upset, but what is it, the ice cream did not work out, the yoghurt too, it stood for another 4 hours, lo and behold, IT'S SUPER !!!! and two jars are liquid. I turned off the device, left the liquid in it, and sent the rest to the refrigerator. In the morning I wake up and I have a gorgeous yogurt.

Fine! What is the fate of those two liquid jars? Were they in the switched off yogurt maker until the morning? Also, what kind of starter did you make, yogurt or something else?

here they stood for 6 hours, I measure the temperature in one jar 40.3 in the rest: 38.7, 37.6, 38.2, 38.5 I put two with water and this with a cardboard but what happened then with my yogurt and again some of them good consistency and one straight with liquid
but how does the thermostat help if the unit itself heats everything in different ways in one place more powerful and less in another

It warms me about a degree more in the center than around the edges. Therefore, my thermostat measures the temperature from the edge, all the jars are just at the bottom of the yogurt maker, except for the one in the center - under it is a thick cardboard. Also, where is your yogurt maker? If not far from the window, then the edge of the yogurt maker is blown by a draft and the jar that stands there has a lower temperature, or the yogurt maker, for example, like mine, stands next to the TV and whenever I make yogurt, I move it aside so that the jar closest to the TV does not overheat.

Fine! What is the fate of those two liquid jars? Were they in the switched off yogurt maker until the morning? Also, what kind of starter did you make, yogurt or something else?

liquid yoghurts spent the night in a switched off yogurt maker (well, somewhere from 1 am to 6 am) - and it turned out very, very good. so ugh. I did it. I still did it on LACTIN.

such a yum yum fermented baked milk turned out my eldest does not eat or drink anything except milk, yesterday she turned out to be a big boss of yogurt, and today she added strawberry and strawberry syrup to it, so she ate 2 cans of it, and ate fermented baked milk for the night
I must now try yogurt with a cardboard box tomorrow (put it). It's bad that 1 set of jars and buying another 1 it costs more than a yogurt maker

such a yum yum fermented baked milk turned out my eldest does not eat or drink anything except milk, yesterday she turned out to be a big boss of yogurt, and today she added strawberry and strawberry syrup to it, so she ate 2 cans of it, and ate fermented baked milk for the night
I must now try yogurt with a cardboard box tomorrow (put it). It's bad that 1 set of jars and buying another 1 it costs more than a yogurt maker

And, I bought this kit for mine. there are 6 glass jars and it seems to be the size, read somewhere, fit the Orions and Moulinex. If you want, I will measure the dimensions.
I'll send the link to you in a personal, otherwise it all does not fit here.

Anh, did you make fermented baked milk on regular or baked milk?

Anh, did you make fermented baked milk on regular or baked milk?

Mon, is it possible to make fermented baked milk on ordinary milk?

[Anna_SHVEC]

It's bad that 1 set of jars and buying another 1 it costs more than a yogurt maker

Anna_SHVEC... Find the right baby food jars. I have from mashed potatoes "Karapuz", they fit not 7, but 8 pieces. even. Volume under the top - 200 ml. A total of 1.6 liters of yogurt is obtained at a time.

Mon, is it possible to make fermented baked milk on ordinary milk?

But who knows, I didn't do it, but what if there are some special ryazhenka bacilli and can be from any? I think it will still ferment, only it will no longer be fermented baked milk, but a beast unknown to science.

But who knows, I didn't do it, but what if there are some special ryazhenka bacilli and can be from any? I think it will still ferment, only it will no longer be fermented baked milk, but a beast unknown to science.

Ryazhenka is a fermented milk drink obtained from baked cow's milk by lactic acid fermentation.

It won't work. The whole taste of ryazhenka is fermented baked milk, and it doesn't even matter which ferment to ferment it with. You can even just sourdough Yogurt, or sour cream - you still get fermented baked milk. I once tried to make yogurt with baked milk, to try what it is. So I got a pure fermented baked milk to taste. And I also fermented baked milk with sour cream and also got fermented baked milk.

You won't make fermented baked milk with ordinary milk.

Girls, can I see you?
Yesterday I bought an inexpensive yoghurt maker, for 900 r, just such

The first time I did ytigurts.
Half made with baked milk, half with the usual 3.2% Pasteurized milk.It was too lazy to boil, just warmed up
I added a box of live yogurt. I poured sugar somewhere.
One can was filled with baby fruit puree, but it didn't work out - it curled up.
The rest are just super! I haven't eaten such goodies for a long time. Thick, not sour, creamy taste. These natural products are expensive.

I want to try bungling sour cream just for fun. Is it better to add fermented baked milk or yogurt as a ferment?
I don't understand anything with drugstores. Does it work better with them?

Girls, can I see you?
Yesterday I bought an inexpensive yoghurt maker, for 900 r, just such
I want to try bungling sour cream just for fun. Is it better to add fermented baked milk or yogurt as a ferment?
I don't understand anything with drugstores. Does it work better with them?

Of course you can, you even need to Welcome
If you want to make sour cream, then it is better to add yogurt to the cream (but I still taste sour cream more delicious on a special bacterial leaven Sour cream).
And everything is easy with pharmacy starter cultures, the product prepared on them is many times more useful than if it is fermented with store-bought yogurts. It says on the bag how to cook. And we have a lot of useful tips and best practices in this topic - read this topic and find out a lot of useful information
By the way, cream for sour cream can be fermented with good quality store sour cream (on the packaging it is indicated that it is based on bacterial ferment)

And, I bought this kit for mine. there are 6 glass jars and it seems to be the size, read somewhere, fit the Orions and Moulinex. If you want, I will measure the dimensions.
I'll send the link to you in a personal, otherwise it all does not fit here.

Anh, did you make fermented baked milk on regular or baked milk?

yes I bought ghee, but I also want to try to make homemade ghee at home and on it

Congratulations!!!

[Tanya-Fronya]

Tanya-Fronya
with successful yoghurt production and development of a thermostat
let the yoghurts always turn out right

girls tell me now completely confused. Putting the cardboard upside down with the white glossy side was overheating in 2 cans out of 5 in one was the final product (fermented baked milk) 40.3 degrees. I put it empty with one can of water where the overheating was the most and turned the cardboard down to the bottom with a glossy finish after 1.5 hours of operation 38 degrees inside and 33 degrees. water in the jar, although it poured 36 degrees. As I understand it, 38 degrees is not enough, and how first you need to catch up with the temperature there and put the jars or immediately

[Anya]

Anya
38C at the bottom of the yogurt maker - yes, it seems to be normal, just milk can then be heated up to 38-39C
try to put instead of cardboard - a circle of silicone (round stand for hot)
maybe because the bank has become 33C, because the cardboard lies to the bottom with the glossy side and a little due to the gloss, as it were, reflects heat
You don't need to turn on the yogurt maker beforehand, although some people do it

Or remove the cardboard and lay several layers of paper towels (thick paper napkins).

Or remove the cardboard and lay several layers of paper towels (thick paper napkins).

by the way, yes - and a ready-made thermostat - the number of layers of napkins - more or less

[Anya]

Anya

You don't need to turn on the yogurt maker beforehand, although some people do it

And I turn it on in advance for 20 minutes. This is how I set the water to boil so that the jars can be scalded and at the same time I turn on the yogurt maker. While I sterilize the cans, I warm up the milk with sourdough, the required temperature has already been set in the yogurt maker, and I warm up the milk to the same temperature beforehand. If you put warm food in a cold yogurt maker, the heat from the jars is lost, they cool down, then they get warm again. You can, of course, not heat either the yogurt maker or the milk with sourdough, the yoghurt maker will heat everything up by itself, but it will take much longer until ready.

And I turn it on in advance for 20 minutes. This is how I set the water to boil so that the jars can be scalded and at the same time I turn on the yogurt maker.While I sterilize the cans, I warm up the milk with sourdough, the required temperature has already been set in the yogurt maker, and I warm up the milk to the same temperature beforehand. If you put warm food in a cold yogurt maker, the heat from the jars is lost, they cool down, then they get warm again. You can, of course, not heat either the yogurt maker or the milk with sourdough, the yoghurt maker will heat everything up by itself, but it will take much longer until ready.

to be honest, I didn’t notice that the jars in the yoghurt maker were getting cold - my yoghurt maker heats up quickly enough

to be honest, I did not notice that the jars in the yogurt maker are getting cold - my yogurt maker heats up quickly enough

My identity is fast, maybe I overdid it. Irish, I'm going to look for melted milk tomorrow, Prostokvashino, or something else.

Irish, I'm going to look for melted milk tomorrow, Prostokvashino, or something else.

well, rightly go to fermented baked milk

Girls, tell me please) I want to buy a yogurt maker, I read everything ... I stopped at Daewoo DI-9261 or 8224 or Moulinex. I read about Mulinex that it sometimes overheats, but in general there are a lot of good reviews about it. but about the Daewoo in general there are fewer reviews, respectively, and about overheating too ... what to choose?)

Girls, tell me please) I want to buy a yogurt maker, I read everything ... I stopped at Daewoo DI-9261 or 8224 or Moulinex. I read about Mulinex that it sometimes overheats, but in general there are a lot of good reviews about it. but about the Daewoo in general there are fewer reviews, respectively, and about overheating too ... what to choose?)

The best yoghurt maker is VIVO TERMOMASTER, but it is rare in Russia. I'm from Ukraine. Where are you from? If from Russia, let the Russians tell you whether it is now possible to buy it from you. There are 3 modes - 30, 36, 42 degrees. Keeps the temperature well, my mother has the same and Pintusha here on the forum. By the way, maybe she will tell you where they are in Russia. Write to her in a personal, ask.
Also, if you don't find VIVO, look at the Dacks, they say they don't overheat, some girls have them here, they praise. Maybe they will respond and advise.
If you want Daewoo or Moulinex, then take a simpler model so that it does not have electronics (automatic shutdown timer), that is, one where there would be only 1 On / Off button. And so that according to the cooking technology, no water is poured between the jars. Then, if you are unlucky and overheat, you can buy a thermostat (UAH 91 in Ukraine) and insert its sensor under the cover of the yogurt maker. And you will be happy. But, if you are from Russia, then investigate the issue with thermostats, they say, Russians cannot always find them. And all yogurt makers can overheat in the summer, even which usually work more or less normally. Therefore, a thermostat will be needed for anyone, maybe a little later. In the meantime, try to adapt to your yogurt maker, maybe you will be lucky and everything will be fine. I have a Cltronic + built-in thermostat, so I will not advise specifically on Daewoo or Mulinex, let other girls tell me who has these brands.

I'm from Russia. Neither Dex nor Vivo are on sale in our stores. There is Severin, Ariete, Tefal, Moulinex, Daewoo, Binaton, for some reason I stopped at these two. one of the Daewoo with an automatic timer like, and with a display, does it mean better not to take it?

I'm from Russia. Neither Dex nor Vivo are on sale in our stores. There is Severin, Ariete, Tefal, Moulinex, Daewoo, Binaton, for some reason I stopped at these two. one of the Daewoo with an automatic timer like, and with a display, does it mean better not to take it?

Arietta is rectangular - this is not very convenient, in a round one the heat is more evenly distributed, and in a round one you can insert some suitable-sized saucepan instead of jars, if you want to do something in one container. (I bought myself a glass one). About binaton I have not heard something on the branch, so that something is told. Of the rest, Moulinex is most often discussed here.Specifically, I will not tell you which model is better, let the owners respond, but in any case, in any case, do not mess with the automatic shutdown timers, nothing can be done with them if severe overheating goes. And a simple one can be tamed in case of something with a thermostat. At first, when you buy, perhaps, if it overheats a little, then girls who still do not have thermostats put napkins on the bottom of the yogurt maker, and you can cut out a circle of perforated cardboard, or a silicone mat, which is put under the hot. So you can lower the temperature of the cooking product when it overheats, maybe this is how everything will work out for you and the thermostat will not be needed if you are not going to make kefir, for example. It needs 30 degrees. Not a single yogurt maker, except for VIVO, which, unfortunately, is not always available to Russians, does not give such a temperature. Then you need to buy a thermostat. It's easier for Ukrainians. Dnepropetrovsk produces good thermostats for incubators. Maybe you can find something similar in your place. But for now, you first need to decide on a model. You write that you have read everything. Did you read these 8 pages? This is the second volume, so to speak, and there is also the first part of 100 pages. Read at least the last 30, or even better everything. You will clarify a lot for yourself and this will help in choosing. Yes, and the owners of Tefale, Mulinex, I think they will respond tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Don't buy without researching the issue thoroughly.

It is precisely for this reason that I decided not to take Ariete. Binaton - I found 1-2 reviews in general, although I liked the very colored caps in it))
no, I read everything, and the previous pages) and when I already decided to take moulinex, I saw a lot of reviews here that overheats, out of the available we have somehow read about the Daewoo about overheating the least (but in general, of course, there are no reviews about them a lot) but here they wrote that it seems to be heating normally ... without overheating. and I so wanted a yogurt maker! no strength to endure! but I just can't decide which is better, a low-cost Daewoo, judging by the reviews, or a popular moulinex, which often overheats)

from what we have available, I somehow least of all read about overheating about the Daewoo (but in general, of course, there are not many reviews about them), but here they wrote that it seems to be heating normally ... without overheating. and I so wanted a yogurt maker! no strength to endure! but I just can't decide which is better, a low-cost Daewoo, judging by the reviews, or a popular moulinex, which often overheats)

Only Daewoo with an automatic timer do not take. And yet - in Daewoo, water is not poured between the cans during cooking? Otherwise, it will not be possible to put something in, nor the thermostat sensor can be inserted.

Girls, tell me please) I want to buy a yogurt maker, I read everything ... I stopped at Daewoo DI-9261 or 8224 or Moulinex. I read about Mulinex that it sometimes overheats, but in general there are a lot of good reviews about it. but about the Daewoo in general there are fewer reviews, respectively, and about overheating too ... what to choose?)

Look at the previous page, there is my review just about Daewoo DI-9261 True, I have it only for the 3rd day and I am a layman. but for the third time everything worked out for me: both yoghurts and sour cream. I don't have time to cook - they eat it))) I put it at night for 7-8 hours, in the morning in the refrigerator for 2 hours and voila. Yesterday I did it with sugar and vanilla - delicious

Irish, I'm going to look for melted milk tomorrow, Prostokvashino, or something else.

Yyy! And what about you, still without multi ?! How did I miss it? Come on quickly for a slow cooker - here's my last royal decree, which is expiring! (asked for decrees - get it)
Tan, you can heat milk in the cartoon itself. And finally believe me: life without multi is not life, but one continuous torment. You only understand about this already when you join high technologies

And finally believe me: life without multi is not life, but one continuous torment. You only understand about this already when you join high technologies

yeah, when you also order a pressure cooker (in a whisper - I'm talking about Azaz) - so then

yeah, when you also order a pressure cooker (in a whisper - I'm talking about Azaz) - so then

Duc zhezh already ordered !!! Drink in the evening.
In a whisper: and now I sit and think: do I need to?

Duc zhezh already ordered !!! Drink in the evening.
In a whisper: and now I sit and think: do I need to?

what you ordered - I understood it, just put it that way
once ordered - then consider what you need
if anything, then go to the topics of pressure cookers - then Aunt Basie may run out of patience (although she is a good moderator)

I got the hint, I'm leaving. I, sobsna, am already there, but so far only reading.