Sancho
What is French Bread? what is the difference between the technology of its preparation and what is the reason for it? what is the selection criterion for ingredients? How does a ready-made "Frenchman" differ from a "non-Frenchman"?

Looking at recipes for bread makers, I did not see a significant difference, except for an increased time - 6 hours versus 4 for regular bread.

Baker-culinary specialists, please enlighten.
Admin

Basically, you're right! When baking bread in a bread maker, the bread is delicious, but this is a bread machine that works according to a strictly defined program.

You can talk about French bread if you cook it according to the technology of French (which type of bread is different) bread, and bake it at least in the oven.
French baguettes for example, do not bake in a x / oven
Sancho
Admin, and yet, apart from the bread machine, how can you describe French bread? what is he? what is its peculiarity?
Admin
I am Admin-Tatiana, girl

First of all, this is a simple dough for French baguettes, the crumb is airy, bubbly, and the crust is hard and crispy. Such bread is soft for only a few hours, then the crust becomes soft, the bread is drier. Recently I tried such bread in Paris, where they buy baguettes in the morning, fresh and several cigars at once. And such bread is served to the table in many cafes and restaurants. Delicious!

There is another category of bread, pan and hearth. But, in the base, as a rule, a very simple dough, flour, water, yeast, salt. And a special cooking technology, baking in ovens.

You live in Moscow. So, on Tverskaya Street, where the Filippovskaya bakery is, there is now a chain store from the French famous PAUL bread store, you can drive up and look at French baguettes there and try

Here I made a little reportage about French bread https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=171020.0
Sancho
Admin, thanks.

And about the "Filippovskaya bakery" - it now does not exist at all: recently passed by - the house is under reconstruction, from it there is nothing left.
Admin

I haven't walked around Moscow for a long time.But, on the internet, you can make a request to find a PAUL bakery network in Moscow - if, of course, it's interesting
Sancho
I baked French bread in my bread maker and it turned out to be completely consistent with your description; and, since the quality of bread in a bread maker is much better than purchased one, I think that a Frenchman is no worse for me than in a French bakery; and, for sure, he is better than the "Frenchman" that I bought in the "Seventh Continent".

And for the advice on the name of the bakery chain - thanks.
tata61
Sancho, I also don’t understand in any way - how does "French" bread differ from ordinary bread? Some write - the absence of sugar (including), others - the regime.
I have a Daewoo bread maker, I baked it only a few times in the French mode, I didn’t feel any difference with ordinary bread.
Can you share your recipe for "French" bread?
Sancho
Here is a French recipe that I liked.

Pressed yeast - 12 gr. (dry - 1.5 tsp)
Wheat flour, premium grade - 440 gr.
Grated hard cheese - 90 gr.
Water - 280 ml.
Vegetable oil - 40 gr.
Powdered milk - 2 tbsp. l.
Salt - 10 gr.
Sugar - 30 gr.
Dry basil - 2 tsp (fresh - 2-3 branches)

Program 08 "French"; time 6 hours.
Admin
Well, this is your original bread recipe, but not French

Only baked on French mode! If this mode turns out good author's bread, no problem, bake in this mode too
Sancho
Quote: Admin

this is your original bread recipe

No, this is not my recipe; I found it on forum., tried it - and I liked the result; and it fully matches your description:
Quote: Admin

simple dough ..., the crumb is airy, bubbly, and the crust is hard, crispy. Such bread is soft for only a few hours, then the crust becomes soft, the bread is drier.

but not french

I asked from the very beginning: What is French Bread?, to which you invariably answer: "this is not this, and this is not this"; all this is avoiding answering the question. I asked about the difference in the technology of its preparation and what caused it? about the principle of selection of ingredients?
You didn't answer that; You just described the result, but, as I wrote above, it coincides with that obtained according to "my" recipe.

The condition "bake, at least in the oven" is untenable: uneven heating in a gas oven and other known problems. Specialized electrical appliances are best baked. And I baked bread a lot in the Russian oven, and I can responsibly say that the bread maker bakes bread as well as the oven.
Admin, you are showing yourself as a bakery and culinary connoisseur who has seen the world; somehow does not fit one with the other.
Admin
Quote: Sancho


Admin, you are showing yourself as a bakery and culinary connoisseur who has seen the world; somehow does not fit one with the other.

What I hate in dealing with people is the transition to personalities

You asked - I told you what I know about French bread, read the recipes in the book "France, a gastronomic journey" and what I saw and tasted in France, French baguettes and bread - and nothing more!
And she spoke as a moderator, since there was no answer from any of the members of the forum.

The thing about "showing yourself as a connoisseur" has been written in my profile for many years:
Until gray hair, I go to life as an apprentice,
Still not enlisted as a master ...
(Omar Khayyam) 1040-1123

And my cookery is my cookery, the opinions of which I do not impose on anyone, everyone has his own!

"who have seen the world" - well, I have seen the world, I do not hide, 11 countries, 35 cities

I regret that I entered into a dialogue with you
Sancho
Quote: Admin

What I hate in dealing with people is the transition to personalities

I didn't get personal; I am talking to you as a Person.
Moreover, your knowledge and experience in cooking and knowledge of foreign cuisines is obvious - only your publications on this forum are worth something; therefore, the expectations for your answers are much higher.


read recipes in the book "France, a gastronomic journey" and what she herself saw and tried in France, French baguettes and bread

This is exactly what I wanted to hear from you - recipes with attached interpretation from a person who has personally seen the subject of discussion.


and nothing more!

ABOUT! This is much more than what is available to me: I did not get out of Russia, and this is not expected in the near future.


And she spoke as a moderator, since there was no answer from any of the members of the forum.

Therefore, as I said, the expectation for your answer is higher.


The thing about "showing yourself as a connoisseur" has been written in my profile for many years:
Until the gray hairs, I go to life as an apprentice ...
And my cooking is my cooking, the opinions of which I do not impose on anyone

Personal humility is one thing.
The perception of your skill from the outside is different.

Whether you like it or not, you have already set your bar at a certain height.


I regret that I entered into a dialogue with you

Admin, I didn't mean to upset you or show you the slightest disrespect; I apologize.
Admin
Quote: Sancho


Admin, I didn't mean to upset you or show you the slightest disrespect; I apologize.

Peace is friendship!
Eagle
: hi: I came to this topic because only yesterday I baked "French bread" in my HP Scarlett. The recipe is taken from the instructions for HP, cooking time 3 hours. 20 m (such a program). The dough after kneading did not form a bun. I will make a reservation right away that I measured everything on the scales, the flour is fresh, of high quality. Since I baked "French bread" for the first time, I thought that the bun should be, and added 2 more tbsp. tablespoons of flour. I baked some bread and it seemed to me the most ordinary, from a simple program.So maybe it was not necessary to add flour and leave the dough liquid? Of course, it is clear that your stoves are cooler (my son gave me what he could) and 6 hours is not my 3.20, but can there still be some kind of fundamental trick in the test for "Frenchman"?
rinishek
Eagle, the steepness of the stoves has nothing to do with it. I had HP Mulinex, there is a program. "French" lasting 3 hours 30 minutes.
my mother's HP Gorenie - about 4 hours.
in my opinion you just have an error in the recipe. Take the recipe from the forum
I tried this recipe https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=1755.0
for Panasonic it is very accurate, but in Moulinex it was necessary to adjust the bun, otherwise the roof could fall. By the way, out of 6 hours 2 - temperature equalization. If you put a start delay for 2 hours in your HP, you get a similar program
There should be no liquid dough in HP. For any bread in KhP, the main thing is a bun.
Generally, just above, Admin wrote about "French bread". The technology of its preparation differs from Russian breads. First of all, a way of developing gluten. "French" by technology - leaky, crunchy breads and you can bake them in the oven, and in KhP - nuuuu, well, as for me - this is not French bread. Ordinary, as you noticed.

take a look here, good article 🔗
Arkady _ru
I also wondered what kind of French bread. If you look at the manufacturing technology, it becomes clear that the bread maker is not suitable for him in principle. Dough on dough, which stands at 23 ° C for 12 hours, while 600 g of dough is only 0.6 g of yeast, 300 each of flour and water. After fermentation, flour 600g, yeast 3g, water 300g, salt 16.2g (which was not in the dough) are added to the dough and another hour of fermentation. Then cutting with rounding of blanks and another 40 minutes of proofing. Then molding into baguettes / loaves and proofing for 1.5-2 hours. Then everything is smeared with water and into the stove. There is no sugar and fat (because, probably, it quickly stale), and there is more salt than we have (because it is tastier, perhaps, or, more correctly, the taste is more pronounced). That is, water, flour, salt, yeast - that's all. And flour, in our opinion, should be unbleached for general use. Steamed at 250 ° C. And all fermentation and proofing at 23 ° C. As they say, have pleasant dreams about French bread from your cotton. There is only an oven, but is there steam?
PS: I'm wondering about 0.6g of yeast. Why not just leaven then? She does not exclude the possibility of the presence of yeast. Maybe they just struggle with the possibility of sour? There is very little of the type of sugar, only from yeast, but no acid.
Admin
Quote: Arkady _ru

There is only an oven, but is there steam?
PS: I'm wondering about 0.6g of yeast. Why then not just leaven? She does not exclude the possibility of the presence of yeast. Maybe they just struggle with the possibility of sour? There is very little of the type of sugar, only from yeast, but no acid.

Yes, there are ovens with steam function. I have this: two modes of baking bread, normal and with steam

That's why he and French bread-baguettes, which have a crusty crust and soft crumb, but such a baguette does not live long, quickly stale.
And urban French bread is not baked with sourdough, only with yeast, this is already a national bread. In any case, I have not seen sourdough bread in the shops of Paris and Normandy. If only somewhere in the village, homemade bread.
Arkady _ru
Zakos under steam. Or you can try it like this: preheat the oven with the lower tray installed, put the grate with the blank and pour, say, a mug of just boiled water onto the tray? Have a pallet in 15 minutes. Another question: 15 min., Why so much? Is this about the additional proving time when baking?
And there are fears that the heat capacity of the pallet will not be enough for 15 minutes. intense steam.
mur_myau
Quote: Admin
Yes, there are ovens with steam function. I have this: two modes of baking bread, normal and with steam
I have never met. Usually I spray it out, or pour it onto the baking sheet from below.
In the first case, the temperature drops because I open the door.

Do you have a tabletop oven or an ordinary oven (in the stove)? What is the name of?
Arkady _ru
Yeah. You can drive a hole with a steam generator
There are very few desktop ones. The status implies an installation.
Bijou
Quote: Arkady _ru
There is very little of the type of sugar, only from yeast, but no acid.
Is it sugar from yeast? I thought they, on the contrary, feed on sugar, secreting acid.

Such a long fermentation with a small amount of yeast leads to the fermentation of flour and the development of lactic acid fermentation, the taste and smell of bread becomes richer than just a quick dough with a lot of yeast. Films become thin and elastic. Have you ever made a daily "bread without kneading"?

Quote: Arkady _ru
Or you can try it like this: preheat the oven with the lower tray installed, put the grate with the blank and pour, say, a mug of just boiled water onto the tray?

Oh, in fact, there are much more sophisticated people invent, such as pieces of ice among pebbles or a wet towel in a frying pan.)) So as not to open the oven later.
Arkady _ru
Bijou, I probably forgot. From yeast, carbon dioxide and alcohol like ... I haven't put a mash for a long time
Scarecrow
In my opinion, French bread is a base bread. Sugar-free, no additives (milk powder sometimes happens, although you don't need to put it in): flour-water-salt-oil-yeast. Therefore, the programs are elongated, because there is usually no sugar in it. Yeast ferments flour, feeds on the starches of the flour itself and takes longer to do this. Sugar is fast food for them.
Arkady _ru
French bread doesn't have oil in the recipe either. Only water, flour (weak), yeast (little), salt (more than the usual amount).
PS: I bought general-purpose flour here. She's kind of weak. What if your hand won't flinch to try? Or to the extreme White Mountain ...
Admin
Quote: mur_myau

Do you have a tabletop oven or an ordinary oven (in the stove)? What is the name of?

Electric oven SIEMENS HB 780570 independent oven
Bijou
Quote: Arkady _ru
What if your hand won't flinch to try?
Good luck! Can you tell us about the results later?
After all, there are themes with 6agets, such beautiful cutouts!
Arkady _ru
Quote: Bijou
Good luck! Can you tell us about the results later?
Yeah. If there is no wind.
Scarecrow
Quote: Arkady _ru

French bread doesn't have oil in the recipe either. Only water, flour (weak), yeast (little), salt (more than the usual amount).
PS: I bought general-purpose flour here. She's kind of weak. What if your hand won't flinch to try? Or to the extreme White Mountain ...

Yes, oil is usually not there either. What specific recipe are you talking about?

Baguettes are usually not referred to as "French bread". They are made from stronger flour.

Arkady _ru
Recipe on the previous page.
lisa567
Why, after baking French bread, a small empty cavity forms under the roof of the bread, the roof is not much higher than the crumb? But it does not fall off, it is simply not convenient to cut, it gets jammed.
mur_myau
Quote: Admin
Electric oven SIEMENS HB 780570 independent oven
Thank you!
lanaYaya
Hello. I have HP Vitek, the difference between the "Normal" and "French" modes is: by ingredients: French - less sugar, yeast, more salt, but the differences are insignificant. Proofing time - French 15 minutes longer than usual (total cycle for 750g - 3h35min, of which baking 55 minutes). And according to my subjective feelings: ready-made French bread has a thinner and crisper crust, it is a little more "tanned" than Normal. Of course, I am not comparing it with real French bread, which is sold in Paris))) - in any case, in an ordinary bread maker, delicious bread is also obtained.
One
When I started using a bread maker, I tried to get a lush bread in the shortest possible time. Now she has almost completely switched to the French regime and the recipe for French (as he is called in the instructions) bread. In order not to interfere with the process (it's difficult, Panasonic casts for 6 hours in this mode), I put on the timer for the morning. 80 grams of wheat flour is replaced with rye, buckwheat or whole grain.
Crisp, large holes, rubber crumb, aroma and taste distinguish these breads from those baked at shorter settings.
Arkady _ru
And what should be the intensity of the baking steam? What would come from all the cracks in the stove or less?
Scarecrow
Quote: Arkady _ru

And what should be the intensity of the baking steam? What would come from all the cracks in the stove or less?

From the stove, I mean, the oven? If there is steam from all the cracks, this can only mean poor insulation of the door))).

More seriously, I splash 0.5-0.75 of a standard glass of boiling water into a cast-iron frying pan preheated with the oven at the very bottom. Why cast iron (you can take other heat-intensive and thick-walled dishes)? Because the heat capacity is high and when water splashes out, it evaporates all of it at once. Therefore, your thought about zakos under steam went in the right direction)). And with this method, steam comes out quite intensively if you open the door later. Not like in a bathhouse, of course, but ... Movement must be quick and precise: splash and then close the door. If you pour cold water or a lot or into a thin baking sheet, it does not have time to evaporate quickly and stands in the pan below for some time. But you need an "explosion of dough" due to a sharp increase in the thermal conductivity of the air, heating the workpiece, the absence of a baked crust in a humid environment. That is, for about the first 15 minutes. Then comes the baking.
LiLy11
yes, the French are different in baking, they are worth learning
Arnica
Hello Bakeries! Can anyone suggest the algorithm of the French bread program from the Panassonic bread machine? I want to program Kenwood-450, because it doesn't turn out as tasty as in Panassonica. Apparently it all depends on the baking program.
I would be glad if someone answers. Thank you!
svital
What should be the correct French bread? At first, after buying a bread maker, it turned out to be more porous than it was and differed from ordinary wheat bread. Now, for some reason, the structure of French bread is the same as that of ordinary bread. Please tell me what could be the reason?
Stavr
svital, It could be the flour. Different flours, even if they are from the same manufacturer, are different, and they have different moisture capacity. First of all, real French bread will be in France, and then it will be French flour which is very different from ours. Bread in France is made mainly on pulish, pulish is made both with yeast and leaven. Bread maker recipes are variations on a theme.
Olga Alekseeva
Quote: Sancho

Admin, and yet, apart from the bread machine, how can you describe French bread? what is he? what is its peculiarity?
Well, here's how many French bread recipes I have in my books from professionals, they have one thing in common:
1) done on dough
2) made with white flour
3) if it is French rustic, then 10% of the flour is replaced with whole grain (wheat or rye or both at once).
With this recipe, a lot of bread is actually made.
This is considered a classic bread. Each country has its own simple molding.
Classic bread is flour, water, salt and yeast.

Properly European bread. with a warm climate like white wheat flour and are made by virtue of that. that wheat grows better there. And in countries with colder climates, rye grows better.
That is why white wheat bread is called French. It's like a roller coaster or Saolat Olivier, which in France is called Russian salad

All recipes

© Mcooker: best recipes.

map of site

We advise you to read:

Selection and operation of bread makers