Sourdough in meat broth for Asian tortillas (master class)

Solid. Like soles.

Tanya, these can be obtained due to insufficient temperature in the oven - they did not have enough strength to raise them and were baked for a long time.
Maybe the sourdough is the case, I don't know yet, because the katyk is not ready yet - it is warm and sour. I'm worried about everyone who makes these cakes.

[kubanochka]

kubanochka, Helen, good morning! Can I torment you a little more? I have not many questions since the morning ...
1) how much time to warm up? (Otherwise your hands are already itching to do it quickly, quickly)
2) what to do with the first sourdough in which such a soooo little sour flavor is kept? throw it straight out the hand does not rise ...

Taxss .. I will bake cakes today with a thermometer, a stopwatch and a camera. I took out the leaven from the refrigerator, it is warming up. Yesterday I cooked a broth from lamb, bought all sour milk from the store. I will start sourdough in different versions. And then I will go to Chuchelka to bake in her tandoor. Nata, will you let me go? I still have the contents of the rum pot ...

Today I will bake cakes with a thermometer, a stopwatch and a camera.

Lenochka! May God give you patience with us!

[Lenusik-Kotyusik]

Lenusik-Kotyusik, so warm up to room temperature. And first of all ... knead the dough on it and bake it calmly.
We will bake with you online today.

We will bake with you online today.

I agree!
Then I'll go and get my Firstborn for warming up!

[kubanochka]

kubanochka, lappl1 (chief consultants), for example, it’s not about the under-played sourdough, but only about the insufficient temperature during baking. But I have one more question: here the balls stood for 30 minutes, and then you shape them into a cake, sprinkle it, - after that, the cakes should not stand up at all? Go to baking? With yeast dough, it's clear: if you don't let the proofing, the products won't rise. And with sourdough? (You can dig into topics about sourdough, but there are 80 pages each; it's easier to clarify than to spend so much time, especially if I'm only going to bake Asian cakes with sourdough. Sorry. I spent the whole night thinking about the reasons for the failure!)

[kubanochka]

kubanochka,

OOO, for the pot I will rent you a tandoor, a gazebo, myself and ... No, I won't give my husband ...)))

[Tatyana]

lappl1 (main consultants),

Tatyana, no, I'm not the main consultant! I am the main customer of this recipe ... Thank Lenochka for taking on the role of experimenter and tester! And I am also a witness of how these cakes were made in Central Asia. But since I was young then, I thought that I would not need this knowledge (you bastard!). Therefore, I have not made such cakes yet. I'm still making katyk, but it won't acidify in any way. Worth sweet in the warmth! Nothing is done to him!
So, we will wait with the answer to Lenochka! This is also interesting to me, as, incidentally, everything connected with these cakes.

Helen, I have a question about katyk. It has been warm for 2 days, mixed with sour cream. And nothing is done to him, only he has become thicker. And sweet! Maybe I should add yogurt there? Only I'm afraid, because I have only one jar of yogurt, sooo old .. It is beautiful, without any mold. But so sour! I once baked bread on it. The bread is so beautiful, but I couldn't eat it. It turned out very sour.
Or still wait for the katyk? Maybe he will change his mind and become sour?

[kubanochka]

kubanochka, lappl1 (chief consultants), for example, it’s not about the under-played sourdough, but only about the insufficient temperature during baking.But I have one more question: here the balls stood for 30 minutes, and then you shape them into a cake, sprinkle it, - after that, the cakes should not stand up at all? Go to baking? With yeast dough, it's clear: if you don't let the proofing, the products won't rise. And with sourdough? (You can dig into topics about sourdough, but there are 80 pages each; it's easier to clarify than to spend so much time, especially if I'm only going to bake Asian cakes with sourdough. Sorry. I spent the whole night thinking about the reasons for the failure!)

Tan, they are rising. At least I got up. I put the first cake in the warmed up Fagor. While it was baking for about 15-20 minutes, I stretched the second portion into flat cakes. It turns out they lay on the table under a towel for 10-12 minutes. In the oven, they really inflate around the edges.

See how they are baked. Unfortunately, everyone has a dry yeast dough. Not leavened. Everyone makes life easier for themselves, but we're not looking for an easy way. We're by the rules ...
I get it like in the first video.

In the oven, they really inflate around the edges.

And if you splash some water on the bottom of a preheated stove, then you don't have time to close the lid, as the cake instantly puffs up around the edges. And the middle is specially pricked so that it does not rise and so that it crunches later.

Unfortunately, everyone has a dry yeast dough. Not leavened. Everyone makes life easier for themselves, but we're not looking for an easy way. We're by the rules ...

Helen, that's what I said in my "Cry of the Soul". No one wants to make sourdough for traditional flatbreads anymore. And not only does he not want to, but they are trying to us under the guise of a tandoor cake with yeast to sing a song about its exclusivity! It's faster with yeast! Although making such cakes with yeast, as in the video, is a hard man's work!
Thank you, Lenochka, for the video!

there is only one jar of yogurt, sooo old .. It is beautiful, without any mold. But so sour!

Lyudochka, the last time I added just such an old yogurt. Maybe, of course, not horror, how sour, but sour. Try mixing katyk and your own yogurt.

Try mixing katyk and your own yogurt.

Thank you, Lenochka, I'll try to add a little! Otherwise, it seems to me that I won't get acid in my katyk soon.

In the tandoor they inflate me everywhere. Puncturing practically does not save))).

My sourdough bubbled a little, but it began to darken from above - a sure sign "I'll spoil soon"))). I kneaded the dough on it, put some of it aside and fed it. Since the sourdough was obviously unripe, I put compressed yeast into the dough. I put 400g of sourdough and, taking into account the fact that I put not 2 glasses of flour, but one and a half into it, I poured 670g of flour. It turned out to be an absolute liquid, to which I added another 200 grams of flour, no less. especially when you consider that the tandoor cake should be quite elastic, otherwise it will simply sag and deform. In short, we'll take a look.))

[kubanochka]

kubanochka, Helen! Reporting ...
I put everything aside, kneaded, put it on for proofing.


After three hours, it just blurred ... increased in volume quite a bit.


Of course, I divided everything, a little more distance, formed the cakes, but they were again "lazy" to come up ... I baked both in the oven and in Princesk ... croutons turned out. I won't even show a photo of the cakes themselves. The dough itself is delicious, but with the "rise" I just had trouble! We will continue to work!

[kubanochka]

kubanochka, Helen!
Tomorrow, after the guests leave, I will "talk" and "negotiate" with the first sourdough ... and even build bridges further with the fed second.
And the smell was even very tasty!

Girls, maybe bake cakes on a stone in the oven (I don't have one). The taste of my crackers is awesome, I'm not upset anymore, I crumbled it into pickle today (so as not to be left without teeth). I decided to use the rest of the leaven for pancakes, I see that the bacteria have quieted down, I added a little soda, it sizzled like soda, everything froth, boiled. I added eggs, milk, salt, a little sugar, rust. butter, flour and boiling water.The result is thin pancakes with an unusual pleasant aroma
(the son thought that I added cheese there). So everything went into business. And the starter culture is evidently useful, it cleans the intestines well.

They fit perfectly by leaps and bounds))). The broth and onion tasted very well. The baking smell easily resembled samsa. Maybe it's worth using these ingredients exactly as a base (let them swell, of course), but for the stability of the process - yeast? There is little salt. Given that it is indicated to add 1 tsp, and I added 1.5.

[Nata]

Nata, I tried to bake onion bread, but there was no aroma, but with such a leaven and yeast everything will work out.
The cakes turned out very cute. Taste soft?

[francevna]

francevna,

How was it not? Where did he go?)) I baked many times. Regular French and slightly fried onion in it - amazing smell of fried onions.

She greased the cakes with milk, sprinkled them with black sesame seeds and covered them with a towel. After that, they soften. And only from the tandoor, of course, they are harsh. One in the tandoor fell down, but did not burn, it was perfectly baked.

[Scarecrow]

Scarecrow, I added fried onions, but in the sourdough I like the flavor better.

I combined the starter cultures in chicken and lamb broth, kneaded the dough. I'll go to the oven now. That much was 90 minutes ago. She put it on a proofer at 28 degrees in her oven.





Knead new versions of the leaven. Both in lamb broth. But one is on Matsoni, and the other is on ryazhenka. Specially made with purchased sour milk, but with a short shelf life.








After reading the post of Chuchelka-Natusenki, I added a pinch of a little yeast to the fermented fermented yeast, for comparison.

By leaps and bounds came up perfectly))). The broth and onion tasted very well. The baking smell easily resembled samsa. Maybe it's worth using these ingredients exactly as a base (let them swell, of course), but for the stability of the process - yeast? There is little salt. Given that it is indicated to add 1 tsp, and I added 1.5.

Well, here, Nata, it tastes ... We are used to not very salty. I then ate them with your sour cream and garlic sauce.

That's it, let's go to the oven.

[kubanochka]

kubanochka,

Well, you have a scale there! Basins!)))

For some reason, for some reason, I am guided by the salt in French from the instructions for HP Panasonic. Probably because I remember it by heart and use it most often. There, the dough for 400g of flour goes 1 and 1 / 4h. l. salt. I got dough for 800 grams of flour. It was necessary to have 2 or 2.5 tsp. put it down, otherwise it was bland for me. My husband said the same ...

Did you have to add flour?

Did you have to add flour?

I poured flour when I poured it out of the bowl on the table and folded the dough. Well I had a lot of leaven there. I connected the two options. And I already added flour "to the touch".

On the question of lifting cakes. So I made a double of two on the leftover leaven from yesterday.

Here is a cake when laying in Fagor:


But when removing:


And the photo is not very visible. But when laying it, I generally wrinkled and thinned. And then she pouted. I added some water right next to the cake.

The dough turned out to be 2 kg, 8 cakes each 250 g. Rather, 8 balls. 7 for proofing, and with one we start ...



Warmed up the princess.



I pour some water, I don't have time to close the lid ...



It's in 4 minutes



Here is the result





One was brazenly devoured, and another at that time was in the Princess

It may not have turned out neat, but I was in a hurry to post photos. During the time it was baking, the leaven began to grow. The one with a pinch of yeast just goes crazy. Rushing! I already regretted that I added at night looking.

[tuskarora]

tuskarora, Lenus, super !!!

The dough turned out to be 2 kg, 8 cakes each 250 g. Rather, 8 balls. 7 for proofing, and with one we start ...

Helen, No words!

Maybe they didn't turn out neat, but I was in a hurry to post the photos. During the time it was baking, the leaven began to grow. The one with a pinch of yeast just goes crazy. Rushing! I already regretted that I added at night looking.

Flax, we don't need neatness! Give us a taste!
Thank you, Lenochka! We are waiting for news of those who are now going crazy. Hope they will give you enough sleep!

[kubanochka]

kubanochka, Lena, tomorrow I'll try to add yeast to my starter cultures ... just a little. The dough is very soft to the touch, squeaking, but something interferes with it. And I keep thinking - maybe I put a big onion? ... maybe the onion is very "angry? Can this affect? and in the next day or two I will try to buy the same sour milk as yours, and put my own (though I looked - my leaven was expired, but was in the refrigerator).

I am reporting. Cooked veal broth today. I made a truncated according to the recipe. It seemed to me that it was thick for growing the leaven, but I will not rush. She hid her overnight in an oven preheated to 50 degrees under a towel. We'll take a look in the morning. In my experience of constantly baking sourdough bread, the broth temperature was brought to 40-50 degrees.

[Oksana]

Oksana, I keep my fists, fingers with a cross ... what else do they do when they really, really want everything to work out?

[Nana]

Nana,

The temperature is high in theory. At 45-50, the yeast dies.

[Nana]

Nana,

The temperature is high in theory. At 45-50, the yeast dies.

It's not yeast! It's leaven! To prepare products with live starter culture, the temperature of the liquid should be exactly 40-50 degrees. And the temperature for the distance is also up to 50 degrees. The leaven is simply rushing under such conditions! But above - in no case. I once put the stove on the stove burner and the oven was on. The oven got hot and my bread took and fell. It turned out to be a real brick.

[Oksana]

Oksana, I keep my fists, fingers with a cross ... what else do they do when they really, really want everything to work out?

It's like my answer: "To hell."
I simultaneously revived the sourdough for baking rye bread. So they stand together. I will look and compare. But I will not rush. Sourdough does not like fuss. The main thing is that it does not peroxide in principle, that is, by nature. This is not a yeast dough. So tomorrow at 10-11 am I will get it, interfere, compare and decide what to do with it. The main thing is that they do not get dusty in the same oven.

It's not yeast! It's leaven!

And what do you think is a sourdough?)) Yeast mushrooms in combination with MKB (lactic acid bacteria). Wild strains.

It's your business, of course, I don't know where you got this information from, microbiologists say something completely different. How much I work with sourdough - I would not advise and overheat it. The rate of its work at a temperature of about 30 degrees, maybe up to 42. Optimal for yeast - a little over 20. Then yeast actively reproduces. The higher the temperature, the less yeast and more LAB. The leaven is sour. But most of the ICD also live within 42 degrees, and then they die.

Here's what happened.
Option number 1. Matsoni without yeast



And this is how it was yesterday



Option number 2. Fermented baked milk and a pinch of yeast.
For half the night and all day, this option was not warm, but at a temperature of +11. I just kicked the top with a spoon, so it's inside



I fed and put them in the refrigerator. I won't bake yet.

And we'll wait for now! In general, Len, make out the cake recipe as a separate topic and participate in a new competition with this recipe. There is definitely no such thing anywhere.

And what do you think is a sourdough?)) Yeast mushrooms in combination with MKB (lactic acid bacteria). Wild strains.

It's your business, of course, I don't know where you got this information from, microbiologists say something completely different. How much I work with sourdough - I would not advise and overheat it. The rate of its work at a temperature of about 30 degrees, maybe up to 42. Optimal for yeast - a little over 20. Then yeast actively reproduces. The higher the temperature, the less yeast and more LAB. The leaven is sour. But most of the ICD also live within 42 degrees, and then they die.

Well, I don't know what they write there. I’m 2 times a week, or even more, I bake bread, pastries, pancakes, etc., with sourdough. At least once a week I ferment fermented baked milk, varenets or yogurt.I specially withstand the temperature from 40 to 5 degrees. And the pastries are just "rushing" and the sourdough in the refrigerator rips off the lids from the cans. When they fermented the niches of the grandmother, they measured the temperature with a finger: "You could hold your finger." This is clearly not 30 degrees.
My husband and I, of course, are not microbiologists, but we studied at the chemistry department at the University for 5 years.

[Nana]

Nana,

Well, this is not the first year I have been making sour milk and baking sourdough with sourdough, so, forgive me, I will disagree. I know quite well the materiel for leaven.
50 degrees is pretty hot. Most likely you are under 50, so everything works out well.

kubanochka,

The stone flower does not come out from Danila the master))). The leaven does not want to rise. So, it rises slightly, boils, puffs, sour (pronounced sour smell and taste), but it does not want to rise, like a French or Calvel, an infection!))). You know, but I just really like the initial part of strong broth and onion. If you then just feed the starter culture, the taste of broth and onion leaves. It is diluted. So uninteresting! Interestingly, it is on the initial loaf, I'd better put the yeast, it tastes better for me. It seems to me ... I will continue to experiment and go to you with pictures))).

[Oksana]

Oksana, I keep my fists, fingers with a cross ... what else do they do when they really, really want everything to work out?

What will I say. Today they cooked Uzbek pilaf for the holiday and decided to try cakes for it. Took half of the specified products. I made 4 cakes, but they turned out to be thinner. The mother-in-law stood nearby and remembered what she had seen in childhood. The cakes were thin and tended to biscuits, but not rubbery. It was the first pancake. The leaven is young, so I will feed and grow it. My mistake was not kneading the dough a lot. I always mix with my hands (I hope that someone on this forum will encourage me to open the bread maker and use it for its intended purpose) I think it will be better when cooking the next broth. Once upon a time I got bread as a "sole", but everything comes with experience. Thank you so much.

[Oksana]

Oksana, and what do you ferment with? Sour cream, yogurt, kefir, fermented baked milk, yogurt, acidophilus, yogurt ... I do all this. And the Varinets? Teach.

[kubanochka]

kubanochka,

Len, I'm not Oksana, but I can fit in, because Varenets is my favorite sour milk)). I even posted it on the forum. You mean varenets, or what I didn't understand?
According to GOST, Varenets has a yoghurt sourdough composition. But based on baked milk. That is, ferment the baked milk with yogurt. Just like you ferment regular yogurt. Although I practically do not distinguish the taste with melted milk, fermented fermented baked milk, sour cream ... And I ferment with anything, to be honest ...)))

[Nata]

You know, but I just really like the initial part of strong broth and onion. If you then just feed the starter culture, the taste of broth and onion leaves. It is diluted. So uninteresting! Interestingly, it is on the initial loaf, I'd better put the yeast, it tastes better for me. It seems to me ... I will continue to experiment and go to you with pictures))).

Nata, I also thought about it. You need to make a bouillon-onion loaf, then add a good leaven or yeast, knead the dough and bake fragrant cakes.

[Nana]

Nana,

Well, this is not the first year I have been making sour milk and baking sourdough with sourdough, so, forgive me, I will disagree. I know quite well the materiel for leaven.
50 degrees is pretty hot. Most likely you are under 50, so everything works out well.

kubanochka,

The stone flower does not come out from Danila the master))). The leaven does not want to rise. So, it rises slightly, boils, puffs, sour (pronounced sour smell and taste), but it does not want to rise, like a French or Calvel, an infection!))). You know, but I just really like the initial part of strong broth and onion. If you then just feed the starter culture, the taste of broth and onion leaves. It is diluted. So uninteresting! Interestingly, it is on the initial loaf, I'd better put the yeast, it tastes better for me.It seems to me ... I will continue to experiment and go to you with pictures))).

49! My thermometer is old. mercury. I have, however, everything in the old fashioned way.
I think that if the next time you revive the leaven not with water but with broth and add onions again, then the leaven will live long and look "stylish". For example: take a spoonful of (wooden) sourdough, revive it with warm broth (100ml), add 1/2 onion and 100 gr. flour. Then knead the dough, adding water, salt, the rest of the flour and fat. Put in a jar of sourdough 2-3 tbsp. l. new test, that is, feed her. Then it will remain in its "original" form and will only grow stronger. How do you think?

[Oksana]

Oksana, and what do you ferment with? Sour cream, yogurt, kefir, fermented baked milk, yogurt, acidophilus, yogurt ... I do all this. And the Varinets? Teach.

Helen, I ferment it all with mine. starter culture grown from Belarusian kefir. I have it in a jar in the refrigerator. There is only one leaven, but the source material is different. That is, Varenets. fermented baked milk or yogurt depends on how I prepared the milk. I make yogurt from ready-made yogurt.

According to GOST, Varenets has a yoghurt sourdough composition. But based on baked milk. That is, ferment the baked milk with yogurt. Just like you ferment regular yogurt. Although I practically do not distinguish the taste with melted meat, fermented fermented baked milk, sour cream ... And I ferment with anything, to be honest ...)))

Nuuuu, so I do ... Anything and anything. I thought that there was some special technology or leaven for Varenets.

[kubanochka]

kubanochka,

Come on))). It is supposed to be yogurt. In fact, it is baked milk yogurt. I compared the composition of industrial starter cultures. Natural craving for knowledge, you know)). But if I don't taste the difference - why bother?)))