omlettedufromage
Hello!

I bought HP Moulinex OW240E30, for the first time I try the oven myself.

Difficulties arose, suddenly someone will help:

Quick bread mode according to the recipe out of the box (baked goods weight 500 grams, medium crust, 1:35):

210 ml water
3 tsp rast. oils
2 tsp Sahara
0.5 tsp salt
325 gr. flour
1.5 tsp yeast

I tried it twice, nothing worked twice - I checked everything up to a gram according to the recipe, used the measuring spoon from the set, cooled the water and measured it with a thermometer (40 degrees), and still the bread does not rise, the crust is stone and thick. The crumb is not raw, but still not porous, some kind of strange, as if it were a bun and not white bread.

Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?

The recipe indicates 1.5 tbsp. l. milk powder, I replaced it with 75 ml of liquid milk (subtracted from the volume of water - instead of 210 ml of water, I made 135 ml of water + 75 ml of milk).

What could be the reason? Or is this program (quick bread) originally such, that is, it is better not to use it? Why then did they turn it on? I would be grateful for your advice.
Admin

Pay attention to:
- the amount of yeast in the dough - increased by 1.5-2 times compared to ordinary bread. The increased amount of yeast is given for a quick rise in the dough.
- dough proofing time - wheat bread under normal conditions requires 2 proofings with a kneading, baking time (whole cycle) from 3 hours, and preferably about 4 hours. In a short program, only the time is from 1.5 to 2 hours, which is only enough for kneading-spreading one baking - this is very little.
At the same time, the bread turns out to be underdeveloped, the dough is not ripened.

Hence the bread is

There is only one "normal" recipe for FAST bread on the forum, try it

Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?Quick bread with semolina in a bread maker
(Elena Bo)
omlettedufromage
Thank you very much for your feedback!

So it's better not to use this mode at all? Even in the recipe from Elena Bo, the time is 1:55, and I have 1:35 the maximum for such a weight. I don't know if this can be manually changed.

Perhaps I should try the "standard" mode and not suffer? The only problem is that there is a "standard" mode in my HP (numbered 4/20), but there are no recipes for it in the recipe book. There is only a recipe for "quick classic bread" (number 5/20), and that's it.

Can I use the same proportions as for "fast", but at the same time set the mode to "classic"? Or should you put less yeast then?
Admin

Take baking recipes from the forum - they will all fit your oven.

The main thing is the ratio of ingredients, dough kneading, flour-liquid balance - and the bread will turn out to be full.

See section CONTENTS OF THE SECTION "BASICS OF KNEADING AND BAKING" and especially the MASTER CLASSES for Dough Kneading (BOLS)

And the ratio of ingredients here The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes

Choose a program BASIC (main)
omlettedufromage
Thanks for the advice!

A lot of information, something is all confused in my head. To get my brain hooked on something specific, I decided to compare the recipe for "the simplest bread" with what I have in the instructions:

Recipe from the forum

Wheat flour - 450 grams + 2 tbsp. l.
Simple water - 300 ml. warm 40 * С
Salt - 1.5 tsp
Sugar - 2 tbsp. l.
Vegetable oil - 1.5 tbsp. l
Active dry yeast Saf-moment - 1.5 tsp.

Recipe from instructions

Wheat flour - 325 grams
Simple water - 210 ml. warm 35 * С
Salt - 0.5 tsp
Sugar - 2 tsp
Vegetable oil - 3 tsp.
Active dry yeast Saf-moment - 1.5 tsp.

Judging by the proportions, this is the same recipe, but the loaf is larger. At the same time, there is one and a half times more flour and water, three times more salt, twice as much sugar and oil, and the same amount of yeast.

In the evening I will try to install the "classic bread" program (I do not have the "basic" mode in the instructions), 750 grams (instead of 500), and use the proportions indicated in this post ("recipe from the forum"): https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=83080.0

Zeamays
My Moulinex is a little different, but the essence is the same - I bake all the pastries - sweet and bread - only on the Sweet Bread program.
This is advice from here, from the forum, hard-won and confirmed by many.
At first I still tried to resist, to experiment, the result is one - a thick oak crust.
I take the recipes from the forum, everything turns out fine.
I sincerely advise: 1) do not compare anything,
2) forget the recipe book for a while,
3) do not bake bread on short programs.
Waist
Quote: omlettedufromage
So it's better not to use this mode at all?
This mode is more for "extreme" conditions when there is no bread, and there is simply no way to wait for 4-6 hours of cooking normal bread. In situations "must be quick", this mode will help out. The bread baked in this mode, as you understand, is not the best, but no one will be poisoned, and will not die of hunger

omlettedufromage
Quote: Zeamays
My Moulinex is a little different, but the essence is the same - I bake all the pastries - sweet and bread - only on the Sweet Bread program.

Quote: Admin
Take baking recipes from the forum - they will all fit your oven.

So yesterday I made my third attempt at baking bread.

Took the recipe for "the simplest white bread" (from the forum), which I mentioned above

I made the following changes to the recipe:

Wheat flour - 450 grams + 2 tbsp. l. 470 grams (450 grams + 2 complete measuring spoons)
Simple water - 300 ml. warm 40 * С 200 ml. warm 40 * C + 100 ml. milk
Salt - 1.5 tsp
Sugar - 2 tbsp. l.
Vegetable oil - 1.5 tbsp. l
Active dry yeast Saf-moment - 1.5 tsp.

There is no "basic" mode in this model, but there is a "classic" mode. With a baking weight of 750 grams (this is how much this recipe is designed for, judging by the weight of the components), this program lasts only 3 hours 5 minutes.

Seeing the advice to use the "sweet bread" program, I decided to try it - moreover, it is 3 hours 25 minutes. At the same time, apparently, in this HP this is really the longest program. Longer simply not.

The bread turned out ... worse than the first one. The roof sagged. The taste is tasteless. The texture on the cut is as if it were raw. Even if cut with a razor-sharp knife. Very soft, crust can be said not - its only advantages over the "first pancake", which I wrote about at the beginning.

Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?

Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?

Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?

In general, I don't know what to do. The HP may be defective. Or the model is extremely unfortunate. There were only three reviews on Yandex, two fives and one four. One hostess mentioned that all the programs there are short and that she didn’t like it, but all the same she gave only a four and, in general, “everything suited her”. I did not attach any importance, but in vain. I thought high power was good.

From the details, it is important to mention that I took out the bread right away. And cut it straight away. I don't know how important this is. However, the main thing is that it really tastes like cotton wool. And it smells like raw dough.
Waist
Quote: omlettedufromage
The roof sagged.
Topic to help you
The bread rises, but falls inward. Causes.

Read the topic for beginners to bake in a bread maker, and pay special attention to the "kolobok rule" - this is the basis.
UNDERSTANDING BREAD IN HOMEMADE BREAD
Quote: omlettedufromage
From the details, it is important to mention that I took out the bread right away. And cut it straight away. I don't know how important this is. However, the main thing is that it really tastes like cotton wool. And it smells like raw dough.
And thanks for mentioning! The bread MUST cool down before cutting - completely Because in the process of cooling, the bread is still baked !!! Read the topic
Cooling of finished bread and the processes taking place in it
The stove in any stove needs to be learned! Learn how to bake simple bread with good texture, look and simple taste. And then it will be easier to complicate and bake delicious breads. Have patience, read and practice.

omlettedufromage
Quote: Waist
Topic to help you
The bread rises, but falls inward.Causes.

Thank you very much for reading.

After reading, I have one conclusion - it was not worth buying a bread maker. I figured that I could cook bread in it, even without having a culinary education. But it turns out that I cannot cook even the simplest bread without measuring the temperature of the air in the room and the dough in the bucket, without visually checking the state of the dough before, after and between proofs, and without picking up the recipe on my own - despite the fact that I have ( useless obviously) recipe book for this model and recipes from forums (which are not suitable for my baking programs).

At the same time, the bread maker, as I understand it, has the following disadvantages:

- chronically overheats the dough
- operates according to an immutable program
- is not truly automatic, since for high-quality baking, you still have to control everything manually yourself

Quote: Waist
The stove in any stove needs to be learned! Learn how to bake simple bread with good texture, look and simple taste. And then it will be easier to complicate and bake delicious breads. Have patience, read and practice.

Yes, I understand. I just naively believed that a bread maker is a device that bakes bread itself, provided that you laid everything according to the recipe from the instructions. I specially purchased a kitchen scale. I measure everything to a millimeter and a degree.

And so it turns out that in the end I will have to develop all the recipes myself, adjusting HP to my model, delving into all the subtleties, and through numerous trials and errors, learn to bake bread in a semi-automatic mode. But in this mode, it would be even easier for me without a bread maker - I could knead the dough in my food processor (there is a nozzle), withstand it as long as necessary (without worrying that the bread maker will miss the duration of the proofing), and bake myself in the oven - exactly as much as much as necessary, and not as much as it is in the fixed program.

After all, if the reason for my failure is really that, for example, the dough was allowed to stand for too long or the temperature inside was too high, then how can I influence this? Provided that I observe all the proportions, everything else is a flaw in the program itself. But I can't change it.

The funny thing is that in the recipe book for my HP there are several recipes for each program, EXCEPT for the "classic bread" program. It's just not there (number four in my model). "Guess the owners yourself."
SvetaI
omlettedufromage, do not worry, everything is not so sad at all.
The main reason for your failure is that you chose the wrong setting for your first bake. You have correctly written that fast bread is extreme, and you need to learn from something quieter.
Start with the Classic Bread program. Take the recipe from the section The simplest bread (according to bread machine models)... Choose wheat yeast bread made from premium flour. It is not at all necessary to look for a recipe specifically for your model, really any will do. There are similar programs in every bread maker (basic, basic, etc.). Their duration will be different - from 3 to 4 hours, but if you follow the rule of a kolobok, you will definitely get bread.
During the kneading process, control the bun, if you have to add flour or water - be sure to measure how much you added. This is done in the first 5-7 minutes of mixing, then the stove will do everything by itself.
If you like the result - next time add flour and liquids, taking into account the adjustment - and you will have everything on the machine. Another thing is that for a new batch of flour or for another recipe, the bun will have to be tracked again.
If you have a normal room temperature at home, then you do not have to control the duration of the program. Now, if it's very cold or very, very hot, you have to look closely. But this is already the next stage.
omlettedufromage
SvetaI,

Yes, apparently, I shouldn't have chosen the "sweet bread" regime. I just decided to listen to user advice Zeamayswhich mentioned above that

Quote: Zeamays
My Moulinex is a little different, but the essence is the same - I bake all the pastries - sweet and bread - only on the "Sweet bread" program.

Perhaps this advice does not work for me.In my CP, the "sweet bread" program is half an hour longer than the "classic bread". Perhaps the reason is that the dough has risen too much.

Quote: SvetaI
Take the recipe from the "Simplest Bread Maker Models" section.

As for that, that's exactly what I did. For my particular model, there are no classic bread recipes at all. Not only on this forum, but even in the recipe book. Therefore, I took the "simplest white bread" recipe described in the posts above. The result in the photos is not fun.
SvetaI
"Sweet bread" takes longer or at a higher temperature, roasts poorly (because if there is a lot of baking in the dough, it will brown faster).
Try all the same Classics. And don't cut the bread hot. Let it cool and mature.
If it does seem a little bland, try another recipe, perhaps you like salty bread or the taste of whole grain flour.
But, in my opinion, it is necessary to achieve a satisfactory result on the main program for wheat bread. And then look for your own taste.
Tatka1
omlettedufromage, there is no marriage in your bread maker. Judging by the photo, the second bread did not have enough flour, and the roof sagged from this.
It was necessary to correct the kolobok during its formation. There are tons of videos about this.
Cutting hot is a gross mistake. Before cooling, the processes inside the bread are still ongoing.
I put 2h. l. salt for that amount of flour.
The fast baking mode, as for me, is certainly not for the "start".
I didn't think men give up so quickly and get upset about failures
It is better to live by the principle "I can't? I'll learn!" Not so big losses, 2 bad loaves.
So try again and you will be fine!
omlettedufromage
Quote: SvetaI

"Sweet bread" takes longer or at a higher temperature, roasts poorly (because if there is a lot of baking in the dough, it will brown faster).
Try all the same Classics. And don't cut the bread hot. Let it cool and mature.
If it does seem a little bland, try another recipe, perhaps you like salty bread or the taste of whole grain flour.
But, in my opinion, it is necessary to achieve a satisfactory result on the main program for wheat bread. And then look for your own taste.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try the basic program today. True, the instructions do not contain a recipe for it. I don’t want to try the same recipe - the bread is tasteless, even if we do not take into account the fact that it is either overstayed, or overheated.

On the otzovik I found the following recipe for my HP model:

1. Milk - 150 ml (should be warm, ideally 35 degrees, at a higher temperature the yeast can "die", at a lower temperature it will not ferment).
2. Sunflower oil - 0.5 tablespoon.
3. Salt - 1 teaspoon.
4. Sugar - 1.5 teaspoon.
5. Flour - 275 grams.
6. Fast-acting yeast - 1 teaspoon.
I put all the ingredients in the specified order (do not mix), pour the yeast into the hole in flour (so as not to come into contact with the salt).
I choose the weight of the bread - 500 g, the crust - light, the program - "White bread".

True, I'm not sure that White Bread is the same program as Classic Bread.

There are very few recipes for my model. The main program is 3:05 minutes. Moreover, all recipes are designed for "preferably 4 hours".




Quote: Tatka1

omlettedufromage, there is no marriage in your bread maker. Judging by the photo, the second bread did not have enough flour, and the roof sagged from this.
It was necessary to correct the kolobok during its formation. There are tons of videos about this.
Cutting hot is a gross mistake. Before cooling, the processes inside the bread are still ongoing.
I put 2h. l. salt for that amount of flour.
The fast baking mode, as for me, is certainly not for the "start".
I didn't think men give up so quickly and get upset about failures.
It is better to live by the principle "I can't? I'll learn!" Not so big losses, 2 bad loaves.
So try again and you will be fine!)

The lack of ready-made recipes discourages me. If I need to adjust the recipe myself "by eye" on the go, then it's not the bread maker that bakes the bread, but me.But I have an oven, I have a food processor. Why then do I need a bread maker? If I need to independently select proportions and develop recipes, control the shape of the bun, adjust the composition of the dough during the preparation process, then I could do all this without her. This is what upsets me.

Of course I will try again. And I'll take into account the cooling of the bread. I would correct the recipe by adding more flour, but I want to give it up altogether - this recipe is generally tasteless. The bread is tasteless, neither me nor my wife liked it. There may be little salt, I don’t know. But I don't want to add salt either - as I understand it, it also affects the reaction of the yeast.

In general, this is all much more complicated than I thought.
Tatka1
omlettedufromage, no, believe me, no, it's not difficult at all. Then you yourself will remember, smiling.
The bread maker is a cool kitchen helper!
By the way, in my book of recipes for a bread maker I have such nonsense written, not a single correct one.
Now everyday is like this:
Liquid (milk, water, whey, etc.) -250ml
Sugar - 1 tablespoon
Salt-1.5 metric teaspoon
Oil-2 tbsp. l. vegetable or 15g cream
Flour / s (sift) -350g
Yeast-1.5h. l.

Crust-medium, weight-500g
Choose program number 1, this is the base bread for all ovens.

Depending on the liquid taken, sometimes I correct the flour (20-30 grams more / less). I like it with milk and with plums. oil.

I really do not use yeast, but sourdough, but don't even bother with that yet).


omlettedufromage
Quote: Tatka1
Now everyday is like this:
Liquid (milk, water, whey, etc.) -250ml
Sugar - 1 scoop
Salt-1.5 metric spoons
Oil-2 tbsp. l. vegetable or 15g cream
Flour / s (sift) -350g
Yeast-1.5h. l.

Thanks for the recipe! I wanted to clarify - is a measuring spoon a teaspoon? And yet - not too much 1.5 tsp. yeast for 500 grams of bread? Here above, they told me about my very first "express" recipe (500 grams of quick baking) that

Quote: Admin
the amount of yeast in the dough - increased by 1.5-2 times compared to ordinary bread

You also don't use yeast.

Regarding mode number one ... My model (OW240E) is very strange. The first program in it is as follows:

Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?

And pain classique is just program 4. For which there is not a single recipe in the recipe book at all. There, in principle, there is only "express" white bread. The rest are either gluten-free, or multigrain, or sweet, etc.

SvetaI
Quote: omlettedufromage
There are very few recipes for my model. The main program is 3:05 minutes. Moreover, all recipes are designed for "preferably 4 hours".
In my old bread maker, the main program lasted exactly 3 hours. I baked everything on it. I took the recipes in the book and on the website. And I did not bother at all on which model of the bread maker the author of the recipe baked. If the bun turned out to be correct, then the bread turned out!
Quote: omlettedufromage
On the otzovik I found the following recipe for my HP model: 1. Milk - 150 ml (should be warm, ideally 35 degrees, at a higher temperature the yeast may "die", at a lower temperature it will not ferment) .2. Sunflower oil - 0.5 tablespoon. 3. Salt - 1 teaspoon. 4. Sugar - 1.5 teaspoon. 5. Flour - 275 grams. 6. Fast-acting yeast - 1 teaspoon. I put all the ingredients in the specified order (do not mix), pour the yeast into the hole in flour (so as not to come into contact with the salt). I choose the weight of the bread - 500 g, the crust - light, the program - "White bread".
I don't really like the recipe. In my opinion, too much yeast for such a small bread. The liquid has never warmed up so much, except a little if the milk is from the refrigerator.
Do not look for recipes specifically for your bread machine model. Take the site, read the reviews. If many succeed, you will succeed.

Quote: omlettedufromage
The lack of ready-made recipes discourages me. If I need to adjust the recipe myself "by eye" on the go, then it's not the bread maker that bakes the bread, but me.
Well, in any case YOU bake the bread. The stove is just a tool. You need to come to terms with the need for adjustment. Flour is hygroscopic. Highly.Therefore, no one will ever tell you how much liquid the flour you put into your oven contains. So, you have to track the bun. To start. Then you will pick up verified recipes and there will be fresh bread for breakfast.
Admin
Quote: omlettedufromage
Here above, they told me about my very first "express" recipe (500 grams of quick baking) that

So you carefully and read on what occasion I gave such comments
In the first post there was a comment about "quick" bread, yes - an increased amount of yeast.

Gradually we switched to ordinary bread, which means that the norms for laying the yeast will be different.
Tatka1
omlettedufromage, sorry, I corrected in the recipe for spoons)))
Add 1 tsp. with a slide of yeast.
SvetaI
The only recipe that I baked on a delayed start (without kolobok control) is this one:
Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?Wheat bread with semolina in a bread maker
(AXIOMA)

Delicious, aromatic, often ordinary milk is replaced with baked milk, which also gives additional nuances.
All the ingredients are exactly according to the recipe, there were never any punctures
omlettedufromage
Quote: Admin

So you carefully and read on what occasion I gave such comments
In the first post there was a comment about "quick" bread, yes - an increased amount of yeast.

Gradually we switched to ordinary bread, which means that the norms for laying the yeast will be different.

Oh, and I thought you meant there was twice as much yeast as needed. Like, that's why there was such a result. Not realized.




Quote: SvetaI

The only recipe that I baked on a delayed start (without kolobok control) is this one:
Fast bread mode - flawed mode, or crooked hands?Wheat bread with semolina in a bread maker
(AXIOMA)


Thanks for the recipe! But I doubt that I can get hold of Semolin's Turkish flour. Besides, it mentions the "Rye" regime. There is a high probability that the duration of this program and its individual cycles on my bread maker will be completely different.




In general, to be honest, I'm already completely confused ...

Quote: SvetaI
I don't really like the recipe. In my opinion - a bit too much yeast for such a small bread (1 tsp per 500 grams).

Quote: Tatka1
Add 1 tsp. with a slide of yeast (500 grams).

I really don't know which recipe to choose today. I decided on the regime ("classic bread"), but I still find the recipes contradictory.

Or those where the components are not available to me
SvetaI
Turkish is not needed. Buy semolina "Makfa" from hard varieties (brand T), there is a photo in the discussion. Baking on it is an excellent result.
Wheat bread with semolina in bread maker # 4
Now in Moscow, in Ashany, semolina (durum) from Garnets is sold - very decent. There is also T.
I always baked this bread on the main mode (3 hours exactly)




Quote: omlettedufromage
I'm already completely confused
The average amount of dry yeast for simple wheat bread is 1 - 1.5 teaspoons per 450-500 grams of FLOUR (and not all ingredients in total). Therefore, I did not like the recipe you found - there is 1 teaspoon per 275 grams of flour.
omlettedufromage
Quote: SvetaI
Now in Moscow in Ashany, semolina (durum) from Garnets is being sold - very decent. There is also T.
I always baked this bread on the main mode (3 hours exactly)

Thank you, I must try. This, it turns out, is 1000 gr. exhibit? There is a total of 600 grams of flour. I hope it doesn't come out over the top. With my luck)
Zeamays
omlettedufromage, after several failures I dealt with my stove on this topic
https://Mcooker-enn.tomathouse.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=115286.0
Look, maybe it will come in handy ...
p. from. Bread maker models are similar.
SvetaI
Quote: omlettedufromage
This, it turns out, is 1000 gr. exhibit? There is a total of 600 grams of flour. I hope it doesn't come out over the top. With my luck)
What's your maximum bread size? I have 680 grams, I counted the recipe for 450 grams of flour. (the mass or volume of each ingredient was multiplied by 0.75). If you decide to bake and you have questions, let's go better on that topic.
omlettedufromage
Quote: SvetaI
What's your maximum bread size?
1000 gr., According to the manufacturer. However, when baking a roll of 750 grams, it rose almost to the very lid (although the crust later fell through). But I would not want to bake such big bread. All the same, most likely it will not work, it is better to experiment with small products.
Admin
Quote: omlettedufromage
1000 gr., According to the manufacturer. However, when baking a roll weighing 750 grams, it rose almost to the very lid (although the crust then fell through).But I would not want to bake such big bread. All the same, most likely it will not work, it is better to experiment with small products.

1 kg of ready-made bread is about 600 grams of flour.
It is optimal to take 450-500 grams of flour for such a large bucket.

If you take less than 450-400 grams of flour, then the dough will spread over the large bottom of the bucket, and the bread may turn out flat and one-sided.
omlettedufromage
I would like to thank everyone who posted on this thread for their patience and responsiveness. I learned a lot about making bread, the load of this knowledge is enormous ("there is much sorrow in much wisdom").

I realized that recipes are just starting points. That the composition of the dough is a fragile pyramid, the balance of which is very easy to break. And that the bread maker is not a self-assembled tablecloth at all.

In this regard, I wanted to ask for advice.

Yesterday I tried to make brioche. I took the recipe from the instructions (500 gr. Bun, sweet bread program 3:25):

Beaten eggs 75 gr.
Soft butter 165 gr.
Salt 1 tsp
Sugar 3.5 tbsp. l.
Milk (liquid) 55 ml
Flour for bread 280 gr.
Dry yeast 1.5 tsp.

However, this time I watched the batch. I immediately noticed how liquid the dough is, how it stuck to the wall. Even after 5 minutes, the spatula continued to wind the liquid bottom of the ball, while the ball itself remained in place, while pieces of dough and flour adhered to the perimeter of the wall.

I helped the bun with my hands, added flour (about 5 tablespoons), until the dough acquired a more or less spherical shape.

Since there was a lot of oil in the dough, the dough did not stick to the fingers, had a shiny elastic surface, but it still often fell into the corner of the bucket and lingered there for some time.

I was afraid to add even more flour (and I have already gone far from the recipe).

As a result, the roof of the bread (as I was afraid) sank. Not much, but still. In addition, although it turned out to be tasty, but extremely dry - so much so that it is impossible to eat it in dry rations (it is very tasty with tea).

In general, the bread came out: dry, very light (rose high), the fragile roof collapsed and crumbled, soft but fragile. The crust is also very fragile and crumbly.

Judging by what I read in the master classes, the reasons may be different. Which one do you think is most likely? And what to correct on the next try?

1) not enough flour
2) too much yeast
3) too much oil
4) too little milk

Thanks in advance for the advice!

Admin

This topic is called "Fast bread mode - defective mode, or crooked hands? ".
From which it was concluded that the "crooked" hands are to blame

For sim, this topic is exhausted, you can close it. All advice and comments on this issue were given, conclusions by the author of the topic were made

Now I propose to use the recipes from the forum in all respects: baked goods, bread, and so on ...
Go to the MENU of the forum, choose a recipe, consult the authors on each recipe and correct our mistakes

And it is undesirable to combine all the baking methods in one topic, then we ourselves will not figure out where what was, saw, where to find ...

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