Admin
Kneading wheat bread dough in a combine

Topic from the cycle: I want, but I don't know how, and I'm afraid to start!

The principle of kneading wheat dough for bread in a bread maker and in a combine is different.

1. It is difficult to knead tough dough in a bread maker, the spatula rotates tightly, the dough lump itself is difficult to rotate, the dough turns out to be lumpy, with impurities. The finished bread is obtained with tears in the crust, cracks, the crumb is dry, hard. Bread can be low because it is difficult for the yeast to raise the dough.
In this situation, we recommend keeping the flour / liquid balance, keeping an eye on the bun, making the dough soft - then the bread baked in the bread maker will turn out delicious and beautiful!

2. It is easier to knead the dough in a food processor, it is more convenient to get a given dough kneading option - soft, very soft, steep, etc.
When kneading in a combine, it is more convenient to track the "density" of the dough, and to regulate the degree of density, and there are no such strict rules for a bun, flour / liquid balance.
At the kneading stage, you can decide where and how to bake bread further - in a form or on a hearth, loaf, flat cake, depending on this, and make the "thick" dough.

Here I will show you kneading dough in a bread dough processor of medium thickness, for baking bread in a mold.

Having mastered this principle of kneading dough in a food processor, then you yourself will try different methods of kneading dough, of different thicknesses, for different breads.

Note: I do the dough kneading in the KENWOOD CHEF TITANIUM KM-010 combine, the speeds and programs are indicated for this combine model.

1. Putting all the ingredients for the dough, named in the recipe for wheat bread, in the bowl of the food processor. You can lay applesauce, butter in small pieces, cheese on a coarse grater and other additives in small pieces.
Insert the kneading hook.

2. Turn on the MINIMUM hook rotation speed.
Now the goal of the program is to thoroughly mix all the ingredients together.
Already at this stage, you can see the ratio of flour and liquid, what thickness of the dough is obtained, and what density we need.
I even prefer to turn off the program and touch the dough with my hands, this is also a good visual way to check the quality of the dough.
If necessary, I add a little (or a lot!) Flour, water, once again turn on the MINIMUM program, and once again thoroughly mix all the ingredients together.
If the goal is to make ordinary bread dough, then I focus on the quantitative composition of the ingredients The amount of flour and other ingredients for making bread of various sizes , and then I adjust the amount of flour / water, since the dough for bread should be moderately SOFT!
At this stage of kneading, the dough visually and to the touch looks rough, a little small lumps, pimples - there is no elasticity of the dough.
The duration of the batch on this program is no more than 3-5 minutes.

3. Now turn on the program 2.
A strong kneading begins immediately, the dough beats against the walls of the bowl with force, rotates strongly.
The purpose of the program: to make the dough uniform in composition, elastic, springy, convex and ready for proofing, so that gluten starts working, yeast starts working, the dough turns out to be of high quality!
At this stage, you can also adjust the flour / liquid balance, but in a smaller volume, it is advisable to do this during the first, preliminary kneading.
And if you add more flour / liquid, then it is advisable to stir the dough for another 2-3 minutes, to achieve a homogeneous dough, no impurities.

At the beginning of kneading at speed 2, a flour slurry may appear at the bottom of the bowl, this is an indicator of a "raw" dough, when gluten threads have not yet appeared, there is no connection in the dough

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Continue kneading the dough further. Here you can see that the dough is still loose, not uniform. I call this dough "raw" dough.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Gradually, the dough will collect into a ball on the hook, which will either rise or fall down into the bowl, and gradually the flour slurry will collect into a ball, a dough lump on the hook. The dough will become soft, smooth and elastic.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

See for yourself from the photo how the consistency, structure of the dough changes, how it turns from loose dough into plastic, soft, beautiful! And the bowl of the combine is as polished and shiny!)) The dough becomes elastic!

In the process of kneading, I turn off the program 1-2 times and visually check by touch the quality of the dough, its softness, in order to achieve the quality that suits me for a given sample of bread.

At the end of the kneading program 2, the dough will be picked up into a lump, the bowl will become clear of the dough. This is the indicator that needs to be achieved!

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The duration of kneading the dough at this stage, at high speed, is about 10-15 minutes!

4. Turn off the combine, lift the hook, the dough hangs on the hook and slowly slides down.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The dough is ready for further processing.

Now proofers in the oven at 30 * C, two proofers with intermediate heaving and shaping, laying in a mold, then baking in the oven.

As a result, we will get such a beautiful bread!

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Cook with pleasure and bon appetit!

I hope I helped you with my tips, subtleties and tricks!

Admin
I'll show you right away Kneading wheat-rye bread dough in a combine.

The bread recipe is as follows, a description of the preparation of bread in the same place
Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manuallyWhole grain wheat-rye bread with malt, with lingonberry jam (oven)
(Admin)


Cooking the dough:
Put flour in the bowl of the food processor, and the rest of the dough, grate the apple on a fine grater.

Turn on the combine at minimum speed, start kneading the dough so that everything is well and thoroughly mixed. In this case, it will be clear whether and how much flour, water was laid and whether the dough will be kneaded to the desired consistency. The kneading lasted for about 5 minutes and now I have this dough, everything is wound on a hook, there is a lot of daub and batter below. If you turn off the kneading for a while, you can see the structure of the dough, it will be loose and rough.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

I collect the dough from the sides to the center, in a pile, close the lid and turn on the 2nd speed at once.

The dough will now transform at high speed into a smooth, pliable dough. Pay attention to the fact that the "daub" from below leaves and gathers in a common pile, the bottom and walls of the combine bowl become clean
Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The dough will heap in about 10-15 minutes and should be smooth. The dough is soft in consistency, but very sticky. This is quite normal, since the Dough is based on rye flour and custard malt.
This dough slipped so slowly off the kneading hook

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Now I add the remaining vegetable oil to the bowl with the dough, sprinkling the sides of the bowl with it, then roll the dough in the butter with a spatula and make a neat bun. I resort to this "trick" because it is risky to just use a spatula or hands to climb into the dough, it is so sticky that you can lift the bowl with it, and then after proving it will also be difficult to peel the malted rye dough from the walls.

As a result of such a kneading dough, you get such a little black bread

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Cook with pleasure and bon appetit!
Admin

Look at the pictures and practice yourself - it's not difficult and not scary in the end

At first, I also got complete nonsense, until I understood the processes taking place in the dough during kneading in the combine. And it took a while to stand at the combine and observe the kneading, transforming the dough into BREAD DOUGH!

I offer you a ready-made version and starting pictures for working with dough in the combine!

Good luck!
Admin
Here is another example of kneading wheat-rye dough, in details.

To understand what kind of dough we are talking about, I give the recipe.

For comparison, you can knead the dough in a x / oven and then in a combine and compare the results.

I selected the ingredients, including flour and water, so that I got almost the same result - both in the oven and in the combine. Try to compare yourself!

Wheat baking flour - 250 grams
whole grain rye flour - 180 grams
old kefir - 150 ml.
simple water - 150 ml.
butter - 30 grams in a piece
coarse salt - 9 grams or 2% by weight of flour
sugar - 1 tbsp. l.
yeast - 1.3-1.5 tsp.
spices - 3 tbsp. l. (dried tomatoes, dried basil and garlic)

I skip the first stage of kneading - mixing the ingredients.
I give pictures of the SECOND batch - combine program 2 (fast).

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The kneading is over, the dough is hanging on the hook and thinking how to slide it into the bowl.
The dough is soft in consistency, only very sticky, as befits a dough containing rye flour.
Pay attention to the consistency of the dough, how smooth and plastic it is.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

I had to help the dough with a spatula, throw it down into the bowl.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

For clarity, the softness of the dough, I walked over it with my fingers

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The walls of the bowl were smeared with 0.5 tsp. vegetable oil, rolled the dough in it, now you can let it stand, the dough will not stick to your hands and to the walls of the bowl.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Here again I walked through the test with my fingers for clarity of the softness of the test

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Special photo session on the rug.
The dough keeps its shape well, is plastic, and the consistency is the same as when kneading in a bread machine.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Now it's up to you - try it and you make the dough in the combine and in the bread maker and compare the results!

I wish you success and good luck, good bread for you!
Admin
Today I am showing the kneading of wheat-rye dough in a combine BEGINNING AND TO THE END.
You can also knead this dough in a bread maker and compare the results.

I do the kneading in the KENWOOD CHEF TITANIUM KM-010 combine, it has a wonderful and strong kneading hook.

1. I put the ingredients in the bowl of the food processor, in accordance with the recipe.

Bread recipe:
Wheat flour
Rye flour
The water is clean
Butter slices
Lingonberry jam
Salt
Yeast
The photo shows that the butter is embedded in pieces, all the ingredients will mix very well and the dough will become soft, plastic at the end of the kneading.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

I turn on the MINIMUM speed, the dough kneading begins.
If the bookmark is accurate, the dough will be kneaded immediately.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

You just need to visually check how much the consistency of the dough suits you, whether it turns out to be soft or tight.

Kneading in this mode lasts only no more than 3-5 minutes.

In my version, the dough was kneaded from the first run, but visually to the touch a little tight

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

You can see how loose the dough is, not elastic. I call this dough "raw dough".

2. I add 2 tbsp to the bowl. l. water, because the dough is a little dry, I am not satisfied with this dough, I need a much softer dough.
I knead a little on MINIM. speed to mix all the ingredients again.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Next, I transport the batch for a quick batch, at 2 speed of the combine.

3. Mix at speed 2 - strong mix.

At this speed, we achieve the elasticity of the dough. At first, the dough will be loose, uneven, under the dough there will be a flour daub, which will gradually be absorbed into the dough ball, the bun on the hook.

Observe the dynamics of this process

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The batch is over. It is interesting to observe the kneading process, the dynamics - the transformation of a lump of loose dough and a plastic dough piece, smooth, soft.

4. Put the dough into the food processor bowl.

Here is the dough hanging on the hook, and he knows how to slide down. Crawls very slowly, you have to help with a spatula.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

The dough is soft, like I need for baking bread on the hearth.

Mixing at 2 speeds can take 10-15 minutes.

Now I add 1 tsp to the bowl of the combine. vegetable oil, roll the dough in oil with a spatula so that the dough freely lags behind the walls of the bowl, and it can then be freely removed from the bowl after proofing, since the wheat-rye dough is very sticky.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

Here is such a cute bun dough!

Now you can place the dough for proofing and then for baking.

Cook with pleasure and bon appetit!
Admin

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually In this topic, I showed the kneading of wheat and wheat-rye dough in a combine, as EXAMPLE OF MIX.

Since it is difficult to switch from one device to another, there is a lot of unclear where to start, how to proceed, I gave a variant of kneading (and indicated the recipe) of the dough, as close as possible to kneading dough in a bread maker.

If you are good at kneading dough in a bread maker, understanding the flour / liquid balance, and a bun, then you can easily cope with kneading dough in a food processor.
The dough recipe is selected in such a way that you get a pretty bun in both cases of kneading - both in a bread maker and in a food processor!

What's next?

Then you start to move away from this basic version of kneading dough to the side ...
Depending on the dough you need, make a dough for dumplings (tight), for pizza, for different types of bread: thick, tight, soft, very soft, very soft, and so on ... by adjusting the amount of flour and liquid, kneading time.

The author's recipe, the recipe from the book and other sources, where the authors indicate their recipe for the dough and say what consistency the dough should be, according to their idea, how long the kneading should take, will be an assistant and a pointer for you.

Good luck with the dough and delicious bread!Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

dnet
Today, for the first time, I was kneading sourdough rye dough in my new Kenwood 560 food processor, and so it didn't come together in a ball, the hook is spinning inside, and the dough is on the sides. , maybe because there was a lot of dough, for two loaves
Admin
Quote: dnet

Today, for the first time, I was kneading sourdough rye dough in my new Kenwood 560 food processor, and so it didn't come together in a ball, the hook is spinning inside, and the dough is on the sides. , maybe because there was a lot of dough, for two loaves

First, read the instructions for your harvester - how much flour / dough MAXIMUM takes for mixing your harvester! From this we start! The dough also needs to rotate somewhere and rotate qualitatively, beaten into a lump. And the mixers must completely cover the dough ball!

The second option - there was a lot of liquid in the dough, the dough could not turn into a ball!

The third option - read carefully the author's recipe - what dough does it recommend to make? How for x / stove, or liquid?
Admin

The dough is wound, then discarded, again wound ...

Look carefully at my pictures, you can see it all there. And the dough is not kneaded for a long time, only until a bun is formed, and another 2-3 minutes for fixing.

Well, if you make dough on the principle of x / oven, a bun. And such a dough can also be steep, or soft, depending on what is required according to the recipe and even completely liquid according to the author's recipe.

It's important for gluten to work!
ELa_ru

Girls and everyone who is interested in manual kneading found in Sergey's LJ () an interesting post on manual kneading of bread dough.

"Homemade bread. Invented recipe, regular flour, hand kneading":


There is a video at the very end of the post. I am inserting it here, but I still advise you to read the post and, in general, to climb in Sergey's magazine, there are many interesting things.

"Homebaked bread":



New vitamin
Thank you, ELa_ru
Alexandra has a website 🔗, on which there are many recipes for such a dough that does not require kneading. The only negative is that everything is in English and not Russian weighing measures. There is also a video on how to make such bread. Interesting method, good result
Admin

Connect a transliteration translator to your browser - and all problems with the translation of words and entire pages will be solved. The text is readable, the measures of weight and volume can also be translated without problems.
I have such a translator on Google

But how interesting it is to look at such bread and know that it can be baked
Margit
Quote: 14anna08

and take a picture, please, when you will
Let me explain in a better way how I do it. I pour liquid into a bowl, dissolve sugar, yeast, put an egg, in general, everything is as usual, pour flour and knead with a spoon or a silicone spatula - as it is convenient for anyone.As soon as it becomes more difficult to knead with a spoon, I dump the dough into a bag, and knead it a little more in the bag, adding flour as needed. I close the bag and leave it for 10-15 minutes. Then I add salt and oil, and knead until smooth, sometimes, as I wrote above, I beat the dough on the table. But not every dough needs beating, it depends on flour. Flour with good gluten loves this business, with low it does not. Try it, there is no trick here, in any case, do not spoil the dough.
New vitamin
Margit,
And what gives beating the dough on the table. And, probably, it is not needed for soft dough?
I once tried a dense dough for bread with force to leave on the table. It seems to have become softer. What's the point - for gluten?
Thank you
New vitamin

Interesting information from 🔗

How dough was kneaded in pre-revolutionary bakeries

based on the book by V. Vasilevich. Bakery business. 1913 A practical guide to setting up bakeries and the best baking methods - black and baked bread and sitnago.

"Kneading is usually done by two or three bakers, because one person cannot knead a large amount of dough. They usually begin to knead, standing near the dough from different sides. First, the paddles are launched along the side of the dough to the bottom, then they are turned inside out together with the dough. . With each stroke, the oars move one step forward. When the sides are kneaded, they are taken for the middle. It kneads in a special way: one of the bakers sticks his paddle upright into the middle of the dough to the bottom, and the other two, if they are kneading in three, put it to his oar their oars cross, and then they begin to walk around the dough, holding the oars in their hands obliquely, that is, so that one end of the oar is in the hands, while the other is in the dough and makes circles in it. hold their oars almost vertically, then they gradually lower the ends of the oars that they hold in their hands, below from this the opposite ends rise up until they come to the surface of the dough, which is a sign of the end of the mixing. After that, the oars are cleared of the dough adhering to them with a knife, a little flour left for this is sown into the dough, and the waving begins again, with the only difference that now they go in the opposite direction.

The first time, as a rule, they move in the direction of the movement of the sun, the second - vice versa. After the end of mixing, the surface of the dough is powdered with flour and it is left to rise. "

What is not an antique planetary mixer
Admin

Well, first, you need a norm
Our Kenwood optimally (according to the passport) takes 500-600 grams of flour, and then the dough turns out to be good. The larger the volume of flour, dough, the more difficult it is to mix it, and the hook will work efficiently. I have already made sure of this, and I don't put more than 500 grams of flour.
With a large volume, only the lower part works at the hook, qualitatively shoveling the dough, and the upper part does not participate in the kneading process, the dough goes up, sticks under the lid.
Watch this process for yourself, interesting - and draw conclusions

Make the dough for 400-500 grams of flour, and you will see how it gathers around the hook, and mixes thoroughly
Tata
Quote: Admin

Tata, there can be two options here:
- batter (I don't see a photo)
Admin, according to the recipe for 680 flour 450 water.
-
Quote: Admin

a hook for a combine of a different structure, a thin loop.

Notice how the Kenwood hook works, the shoulder blade is wide and designed to grip and turn the dough. Therefore, the dough quickly turns into a bun
Yes, the hook is loop-shaped, thin. So what does it mean it's not meant for bread dough?
And for me it was one of the most important factors when buying. On the forum there is a branch on Bosch 5 series, like I met girls successfully kneading bread. I hope the absence of a kolobok is not a disadvantage for bread when kneading in this machine.
Admin
Quote: Tata

Admin, according to the recipe for 680 flour 450 water.
-
Yes, the hook is loop-shaped, thin.So what does it mean it's not meant for bread dough?
And for me it was one of the most important factors when buying. On the forum there is a branch on Bosch 5 series, like I met girls successfully kneading bread. I hope the absence of a kolobok is not a disadvantage for bread when kneading in this machine.

Yes, 680 grams of wheat flour needs about 450 ml. water (liquid)

It is necessary to adapt to the harvester, to study its capabilities.
The absence of a kolobok is a disadvantage for the test itself! Possible options: the dough can be soft (but not liquid) when baked in the oven in a mold where the dough is held by the walls.
And the dough can be liquid, liquid, if this is implied by the AUTHOR's recipe, and then it is advisable to see a photo of the finished bread, what purpose is achieved with this dough, cakes or something else
Igor L
All Happiness and Good Luck in the coming year !!! Huge respect and thanks to the ROMA moderator for the painstaking and very useful work for all of us! I've been baking for a long time, but the "tallest" my product was 5-6 cm (pies, buns, biscuits, etc.), and then after watching and reading everything wonderful on the forum, plus even going to the store in the morning and not finding there is bread (I live in the village) - I decided to bake full bread. Flour combined in a percentage of approx 60-whole grain coarse grinding, approx. 30-wheat flour BC, and 10 percent rye wallpaper. Liquids - mineral water from a bottle + a little ryazhenka from dry sourdough, egg white (the yolk went to cover the top), two tbsp. tablespoons of sunflower oil (one refined, one not refined), then a dessert spoon of dry yeast, a spoonful of fructose (instead of sugar, I pour it into any baked goods), a teaspoon of sea salt. The flour was ok. 700-800 grams. I knead everything only by hand-excellent charging-better than any fitness-schmitness Three rises with a kneading, then into a glass 2-liter pan, so that you can see the process, and in an electric oven heated to 40-50 degrees, for ten minutes and increased the temperature to 170 degrees --- And HERE made a mistake. It was necessary to turn off the upper heater, because glass is a poor conductor of heat, and the heating of the bread from above went much stronger than from the bottom - as a result, my bread "blew off the roof", but in the end the bread turned out to be very good, dense, tasty and satisfying (I do not like white "cotton" bread). The bread was baked for about 45 minutes, after 30 minutes the temperature was reduced to 140-150 degrees.
Admin
Quote:
Three rises with a wrinkle, then into a glass 2-liter pan, so as to see the process, and into an electric oven heated to 40-50 degrees, ten minutes and increased the temperature to 170 degrees

Errors elsewhere:
- the wheat flour dough is only allowed to stand TWO times, with one kneading between them.
- it is necessary to monitor the temperature of the dough during kneading, it should be at the level of 26-28 * С
- the dough is allowed to stand at a temperature of only 26-28 * C, in extreme cases 30 * C, but no more !!! Temperature 50 * is destructive for yeast. According to the technology, at a temperature of 55-60 * C, yeast stops working.
- let the dough stand in the mold only until the volume of the dough doubles - no more, the dough will stop and this will affect its quality.
- bread in the form must be baked at a temperature not lower than 180-190 * C. Further baking depends on the author's recipe.
- the baking time depends on the bread itself, it is optimal to control the readiness of the bread with a temperature probe, the bread is ready when T * 94-98 is reached

Like this
Igor L
Thanks for the tips, I will take into account all your comments next time.
wmw55
+ for Roma + (and others) Tell me, I bought a cellronik 3323 now on the way to me - it has a power of 1000 W and max. 2 kg of dough - yours will be more powerful - what if I put 1 kg of flour on millet. bread (I want more bread) he will not knead it or I will eventually ditch the kneader (what is your opinion of how much flour can I load on wheat bread (rye, dough on dumplings and noodles) without damaging the kneader and so that it is well mixed?)
Admin
You need to lay flour exactly as much as recommended by the instructions.
In my Kenwood I need a bookmark OPTIMALLY 500-600 grams of flour, with a bowl volume of 5 liters! It should be taken into account that in addition to flour, liquid and other components of the dough will be added, which will increase the weight and volume of the dough. But, and it must be borne in mind that you also need a space where the dough will be kneaded, and it should be about half a bowl so that the dough is kneaded, then the bread will turn out to be of high quality.
Increasing the volume of the dough and decreasing the free space in the bowl will result in the dough not being mixed.

Notice in my photo how the dough rotates on the hook freely, and there is enough room for it - this is a guarantee that the dough will be well mixed, and already in the bowl, gluten begins to develop, the dough changes its structure for the better.
wmw55
-explain to the beginner whether it is possible to knead with a dough mixer some 500g of flour + the second 500g then connect them manually and for proofing with one kolobok (nothing will happen to the first kolobok while the combine rests + kneads the second portion) - or how to make these 2 koloboks put in the oven at the same time (2 loaves of bread) to ferment, then they will be at different times (or if one of them stops for half an hour more, is it not scary?) - Thank you.
Admin

Why such difficulties? After all, the larger the dough piece, the more difficult it is to handle it. Make two breads and place the bake side by side in the oven.
The kneading time in the combine is about 10-15 minutes, depending on the weight of the dough. The finished dough can lie down for this time just in a bowl under the film, there will not have time to start the processes yet.

You can connect, try and experiment
wmw55
Admin
I knead for 10-15 minutes at 1 and 2 speeds (kenwood) and this time is enough to knead the dough qualitatively. You just need to monitor the state of the kneading and intervene in time if the dough is steep or liquid - depending on which dough is in question according to the recipe.
And again, the dough itself suggests the quality of the kneading and how much time it takes for it - sometimes 5-7 minutes is enough. It all depends on the amount of flour, the ingredients, their temperature, the quality of the flour and so on ... the consistency of the dough that the author intended (liquid or completely cool).
My photos in this topic show the standard kneading procedure for ordinary table bread, this is an EXAMPLE of kneading.

NEVER LOOK AT THE HOUR when proving the dough! The dough always prompts itself the required time by its behavior - until the dough piece is doubled! Because, the dough will still grow in the oven when baking, and the excess rise of the dough can cause it to fall off during baking.
Read also this topic "How to check the readiness of the dough for baking? Temperature of the finished dough" https://Mcooker-en.icdself.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=158608.0.html
Look at my bread recipes in the oven (go to my profile) where I describe in great detail the procedure for proofing and baking in different versions, there is a photo there.

When using a kneader or a combine, you do not need to dig any holes in the flour, this is not a delayed start - the kneading starts immediately!
I usually pour water, then flour, then everything else, the water at the bottom for better and faster kneading, the flour is moistened with water.

Whether to make a brew from yeast depends on the recipe and your own desire. If the yeast is of high quality, then you can use it in flour. If in doubt, try to activate https://Mcooker-en.icdself.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=140919.0

To somehow decide on kneading and baking, the use of recipes - see our author's recipes, read carefully the recommendations of the authors of the recipes, see photos
wmw55
Admin
Quote: wmw55

I understood you correctly - pour yeast, salt, sugar, butter, etc., is it possible precisely in the process of kneading with a machine and can the dough of wheat bread after the second proofing be put into a mold and immediately into the oven?

I quote myself in the above post: Look at my bread recipes in the oven (go to my profile) where I describe in great detail the procedure for kneading, proofing and baking in different versions, there is a photo there.

and

When using a kneader or a combine, you do not need to dig any holes in the flour, this is not a delayed start - the kneading starts immediately!
I usually pour water, then flour, then everything else, the water at the bottom for better and faster kneading, the flour is moistened with water.
leeka
Admin., Tatyana, hello! Please tell me if it is possible to mix the kolobok? There was a situation when kneading wheat bread (from the first page with applesauce), the bun turned out, it was necessary to turn off the harvester, but I was distracted and I went to the harvester after 7-10 minutes, and there was a daub under the bun. I added flour, waited for her to intervene. The bread did not rise well, it turned out, although tasty, but not high. What kind of processes took place in the kolobok, and flour, I probably added it in vain ...
Admin
Quote: leeka

Admin., Tatyana, hello! Please tell me if it is possible to mix the kolobok? There was a situation when kneading wheat bread (from the first page with applesauce), the bun turned out, I had to turn off the harvester, but I was distracted and I went to the harvester after 7-10 minutes, and there was a daub under the bun. I added flour, waited for her to intervene. The bread did not rise well, it turned out, although tasty, but not high. What kind of processes took place in the kolobok, and flour, I probably added it in vain ...

Kneading consists of several stages:
- pre-mixing (mixing of ingredients)
- dough rest (ingredients begin interpenetration and friendship)
- main batch (gluten development)
and then the dough goes to proofing

At what stage did you get distracted, and you got a daub?
You can add flour on the 1st and 3rd kneading cycles. If you do not meet it, you can turn on the x / stove again and start over the kneading, but in this situation, the game with kneading and a long pause, when the yeast has already started its work, and they are suppressed by kneading - the dough may turn out to be not entirely of high quality and the bread will not suit you , will not live up to expectations.

You can do it differently: start kneading again, but only for 1 batch, in order to achieve the desired consistency of the kolobok, then turn off the oven and bring the proofers manually, and then turn on the Baking mode.

If there was a daub under the dough, but not significant (and not a swamp, and a lot of liquid), then you can not touch the dough, let the baking go on like this, nothing terrible will happen.
leeka
I kneaded in a food processor. I put everything in the bowl, turn it on at low speed, after 7-10 minutes I look at the state of the kolobok, if necessary, add a little flour, a little bit. As soon as the bun is gathered in a bunch, it does not stick to the walls, everything is ready. In total, the kneading takes about 15 minutes. And this time I was just distracted when it was already 3 minutes round and beautiful. The swindle was insignificant, not a swamp. I was just surprised, I was handsome, and suddenly began to smear. I remember my grandmother told me that the longer you knead, the better.
Natusichka
Tanya, thanks for a very detailed description, I will slowly master the method of kneading dough in a combine (Kenwood 096 model).
Questions immediately arose:
1. We do not have whole grain rye flour on sale, there is only peeled flour. Can you use it in these recipes and take it (versus whole grain)?
2. The recipe contains dry yeast. I only use pressed ... Can I make a replacement?
3. If you add dried tomatoes, I have them dried in rings, do they need to be chopped?
Admin

All replacements can be done In any case, the kneading in the combine goes according to the principle of flour into water and the dough can always be corrected for softness - this is what I do
And tomatoes can be chopped, but add them at the end of kneading the dough so that they do not turn into dust
Natusichka
Thank you!
Tumanchik
This is the kind of trouble. Well, he doesn't want to go to the kolobok. Although the first minutes after kneading, the dough gathers perfectly, and then it runs away like this. Sprayed water from a spray gun - the same thing. Just then I dumped the table and handles! And this is not so convenient - after all, there is a combine.
Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually
Here the dough was kneaded for more than 10 minutes. This picture became after the addition of saline and flax seeds, but this happens in another case.
Admin

Ira, how much flour is in the dough? And the water seems to be too much, the dough turns into gruel.
A Boshik has a bowl of 5-6 liters (like a Kenwood), it is optimal for such a bowl of 300-400 grams of flour. And from the photo you can see that there is not enough flour, so the dough scattered along the walls, there is nothing to fold into a lump
Admin

Name the composition of the dough, and how did you mix it, speed and so on ...
Tumanchik
porch (aged 48 hours dough) 45 grams: flour 1 grade 50 grams + water 34 grams + fresh yeast about 1.5 grams + salt 1 gram
dough:
whole porch
wheat flour 1 grade -84 grams
whole grain spelled flour 84 grams
peeled rye flour 84 grams
fresh yeast 8 grams diluted in 50 ml of water
water 200 ml - 50 ml - 20 ml = 130 ml
after kneading in 8 minutes

Fine sea salt 7 grams + 20 ml of water
flax seeds

immediately after kneading, the dough gathered well, and then it began to smear. and after salt and flax, this is the situation
Tumanchik
aa, even after salt, I added a tablespoon of incomplete 1st grade flour and rye
Admin
Quote: Tumanchik


immediately after kneading, the dough is well assembled, and then it began to smear ... and after salt and flax, this is the situation

Ira, it also happens, the dough is normal, and then after a while it begins to soften. Flour absorbs liquid, interaction occurs, liquid absorption occurs - and at this time this very "flour-liquid balance" appears - then you need to add flour little by little to the desired dough consistency.
Look carefully at my photos and comments in the first post of the topic - there I write about it and show it.

But, in that case, we adjust the dough, if it should be of exactly this consistency. If the author of the recipe talks about a different consistency of the dough (very liquid or steep), then we follow the author's recommendations
Tumanchik
Quote: Admin

Ira, it also happens, the dough is normal, and then after a while it begins to soften. Flour absorbs liquid, interaction occurs, liquid absorption occurs - and at this time this very "flour-liquid balance" appears - then you need to add flour little by little to the desired dough consistency.
Look carefully at my photos and comments in the first post of the topic - there I write about it and show it.

But, in that case, we adjust the dough, if it should be of exactly this consistency. If the author of the recipe talks about a different consistency of the dough (very liquid or steep), then we follow the author's recommendations
Tanya thank you very much - we will work!
Babushka
Tatyanawhat an interesting topic! Thank you! I always baked bread "by eye", but now I bought baskets for proving and decided "according to science." Since I knead the dough in a food processor, the topic is very useful for me.
Admin

Tanyusha, then good luck, with new baskets to delicious bread
Babushka
Tatyana, Thank you! Here's what came out of 350 grams of water, 50 grams of whole grain, 150 grams of rye and 400 grams of wheat flour. 18 grams of pressed yeast, 9 grams of salt, 1 tablespoon of sugar, 1 tablespoon of butter. Of this amount of flour, 21.1 gr remained.

Knead in Bosch MUM86, 5 minutes for 1 and 17 minutes for 2:
Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually
Either crawl off the hook, or not ..
Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually
Still crawl:
Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually

It seemed to me that the dough was taut, but I decided not to add liquid, but to see what happens ...

Tatyana, and for such a basket to take half or all of the dough?

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually
Admin
Tanya, usually no more than half the height of the mold is put into the mold, after all, it also needs to rise 2-2.5 times before baking And depending on the activity of the dough, you can lay 1/3.
This is much better than the dough will float over the top.
Babushka
Tatyana, Thank you! The dough rose very well. Now I folded it and put it on the second lift. I bought Ottakringer yeast for the first time in Vienna. The yeast is great! Before that I bought another manufacturer. But let's see what the final product will be.
Babushka
Tatyana, well, that's what I got. This is a small loaf in a round basket, which was made from the remains of a large one. I liked the taste very much. I have not added whole grain flour before, usually made with wheat / rye. Or whole grain / wheat. The big one is getting cold.I really look forward to criticism.

Kneading bread dough (wheat and wheat-rye) in a combine and manually
Admin
Why criticize something? The holes are good
If only the height of the bread was not enough, the fry turned out to be flat - so she probably put so much dough in the mold, it went wider
Or so it seemed to me?
Babushka
Tatyana, Thank you. It's true, I didn't put much. I thought it would rise more in the oven. And he did not rise strongly. Also, when she rolled out of shape, she shook too vigorously. Especially not blown away, but, apparently, shook her hard. I will improve. Topics about bread are very interesting and useful. They help a lot!

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