ritik28
Good afternoon everyone !!!

Let's talk about the PERFECT BREADMaker?!?! What should it be? What features are you missing? What existing functions seem to be the most convenient for YOU? What is clearly superfluous? I am not interested in the models, namely - what the PERFECT BREAD MAKER should be for YOU.

I work for a company that produces bread makers (I won't say which one, so as not to advertise). And it is VERY IMPORTANT for us to know what our consumers need in order to create a good product with the necessary functions.

Thanks in advance for your answers.
tenidia
With the possibility of programming, changing the baking temperature.
Misha
For me, of course, among other things, the shape of the bucket is important, and, as a result, of the finished bread. I would like it to be a traditional shape, elongated in length, not in height. And for this, as I understand it, two mixers are needed. I have a Panasonic 255 - I am very happy with the stove, so manufacturers would have taken such a nuance into account and then the price would not have been there.
ritik28
Quote: MISHA

For me, of course, among other things, the shape of the bucket is important, and, as a result, of the finished bread. I would like it to be a traditional shape, elongated in length, not in height. And for this, as I understand it, two mixers are needed. I have a Panasonic 255 - I am very happy with the stove, so manufacturers would have taken such a nuance into account and then the price would not have been there.
Thank you. What functions do you use the most? here in many there is, for example, making jam. Does anyone need this at all?
Mueslik
ritik28, there is such a topic on the forum
https://Mcooker-en.icdself.com/index.php@option=com_smf&topic=2025.0
For me personally it is important and I would like
backlight bucket
possibility of programming
pause
at least two different baking dishes
I don’t use the jam function and don’t intend to, and indeed most use one or two or three programs
ritik28
Quote: tenidia

With the possibility of programming, changing the baking temperature.
and what specific programs are needed? what do you use?
Zhorzhevna
I also don't use the "Jam" function. And I’ll hardly use it! But two different forms for baking are good !!!!!
Mueslik
ritik28, I mean the button, but it's better to have a few recipes
This allows the owner to create programs himself, that is, the time of kneading and lifting is set independently, it is also desirable to be able to save these settings in memory
It seems to me that a few standard programs are enough
main
French
wholegrain
sweet pastries
jam-for those who like to binge
unleavened dough
yeast dough
just baking
and the ability to create several of your programs
Also, the necessary functions remain -
weight selection
choice of crust color
timer delay
For me, absolutely useless:
gluten free
quick
jam
cake
bread with OMEGA-3
bread without salt
borodinsky
tenidia
I have a high temperature in Moulinex, sometimes the rye crust is too dark and thick. I, of course, love the crust, but I would like a little brighter. The form is fundamental: for this reason I chose my own stove. Also size: I have 3 men and I bake large loaves. Programming would be suitable for sourdough bread, rye to Moulinex, dough with a timer, I would come up with something else, because I'm experimenting. I use the minimum of programs 1 (the best, it has the best pastries, the rest is dark) and 8 and dough, I don't cook jam and, maybe I won't, it's a pity to bake, they say this is not very much for her.
irina2101
And I would put the control over the bun on the stove, so that it would give an audible signal, if anything. And on the display - water or flour, and "gallop to hang in grams." I probably want a lot
ritik28
Quote: irina2101

And I would put the control over the bun on the stove, so that it would give an audible signal, if anything. And on the display - water or flour, and "gallop to hang in grams." I probably want a lot

Well, we're talking about the ideal! so thanks for the answer. and we will try to take into account in the future, if possible, of course
ritik28
Quote: Zhorzhevna

I also don't use the "Jam" function. And I’ll hardly use it! But two different forms for baking are good !!!!!
I also think that jam is too much ...
and on account of the bakeware - what should they be ideal for you?
Jeannet
And I really like to make jam in cotton, I never cooked it, but I started in the stove, now my daughter caught fire and says - I'll buy cotton especially for jam, she really liked orange. So, I really need this function.
Misha
Quote: ritik28

I also think that jam is too much ...

I used to think so too, the bucket was a pity, until I gathered my courage and tried it - curiosity got the better of it. Girls, this is such a miracle !!! Now I consider this program to be one of the most successful in a bread maker.
Misha
Quote: irina2101

And I would put the control over the bun on the stove, so that it would give an audible signal, if anything. And on the display - water or flour, and "gallop to hang in grams." I probably want a lot

Well then, we will give the function of trying bread to the stoves
ritik28
Quote: Jeannette

And I really like to make jam in cotton, I never cooked it, but I started in the stove, now my daughter caught fire and says - I'll buy cotton especially for jam, she really liked orange. So, I really need this function.

fine. means, after all, someone uses. thanks for the answer.
aynat
And I really like the jam (jam) from HP, very tasty in winter from frozen fruits and tangerines! And if buckets / stirrers could be free to buy, then everyone would probably use jam, they would not regret the stove! I want a round bucket as an option.
Programming, yes, is very necessary.
I also consider the most useless program on my stove - fast (there are even 2 for 700 and 900 g) - 1 hour - well, what good can you get during this time?
Crochet
From the moment of purchase of its HP-function "Jam" well, it is sooo in demand, although the final product can be called jam with great stretch (IMHO). At least in my understanding, jam is a slightly different product. And this one is more like a five-minute jam, well, so delicious, so I really need this function. I've also heard a lot about the suffering of a bucket from cooking jam in it, but ... I've been stubbornly, for more than a year now I've been cooking jam and baking bread in KP ... I have no complaints!
And as for the shape of the bucket, so I "pecked" on my stove, one might say because of the shape ...

natalka
And now there is a special device for jam.

VitaFruit_MJ1011_main.jpg
The ideal bread maker - what is it?
Mueslik
Yes, and I also forgot-necessarily-the-window
Only the design of the window should be well thought out to eliminate heat loss
Can be double-glazed with good sealing
Crochet
Quote: natalka

And now there is a special device for jam.

natalka,
It's a good thing (I have had a "grudge" for this device for a long time), only there is nowhere to put this already! I'm afraid that if I buy it, I'll have to install it on the bedside table instead of a floor lamp ... And the HP-2 in 1, and bread and jam, and saves space!
aynat
Quote: Krosh

natalka,
It's a good thing (I have had a "grudge" for this device for a long time), only there is nowhere to put this already! I'm afraid that if I buy it, I'll have to install it on the bedside table instead of a floor lamp ... And the HP-2 in 1, and bread and jam, and saves space!
+100!
And then there was some topic about German stoves, so they can also make yogurt. Give 100 in 1!
In general, you need a SILENT stove and not "jumping-running" on the table!
ritik28
and then I have this question about jam and yogurt:
but there is no such feeling that the more functions, the worse each of them? Or is the question of saving space more serious?

Well and one more thing - is the function of making jam important / key when buying? Or do you already realize its usefulness later, when you start using it?
aynat
The jam function is, of course, optional (I’m talking about yoghurt, to show that they even put it in the oven, what kind of yoghurt you have to ask the owners of such a miracle), BUT it is a VERY nice addition. That is, any function that is not specifically related to baking, if it is really working, multiplies the advantages of the device.I have never prepared jam in the summer on an industrial scale, and now I cook in HP as needed (and the need is still growing), it is much tastier than the summer / traditional jam, possibly due to constant stirring. The jam function in HP is absolutely a working function!
Mueslik
ritik28, maybe, to release two modifications of the HP-with the function of making jam and without it, users will take exactly what they need and not pay for extra functions
I get the impression that the more various functions in one device, the worse the quality of their performance
or the quality is up to par, but the price
ritik28
Quote: Mueslik

ritik28, maybe, to release two modifications of the HP-with the function of making jam and without it, users will take exactly what they need and not pay for unnecessary functions

well, there are a lot of subtleties here. for the buyer, of course, it is easier when he has a bunch of modifications of the same model, but for the seller this is not very good.
it's like with cars - if you want a non-standard complete set, you have to wait six months, because the seller does not keep the entire range in stock. everyone is trying to create something optimal.

that's why I'm trying to understand what qualities of the stove people especially appreciate. and note that there are 2 big differences between what a person thinks BEFORE buying and what AFTER. after all, initially no one buys HP for the sake of jam, and then they begin to appreciate this function very much, judging by the answers ...
Kosha
I have all modes except gluten-free baking, but I think people who are not gluten-free welcome this feature.

A big plus in the stoves is the possibility of a delayed start.

Quick bread - at first I did not like it categorically, but now, using Elena Bo's recipe "Quick bread" I bake when I urgently need a loaf. It tastes just as good as traditional.

Basic, Basic with raisins, dough on the main program - the most popular modes. It is a pity that you cannot put the dough on the timer !!! So sometimes you need ...

Rye, Diet, Pizza, Dumplings, Jam - sometimes I use it and I'm very glad that there are such functions. I strongly disagree if someone offers me a cheaper model, but without these programs.

Bakery products - the desired mode.

In fact, Panasonic-255 has only one drawback: the lack of programming.
The window is generally an insignificant moment for me.
The shape of the bread makes no difference to me, although if there was an opportunity to put a round (for cake) shape, I would not refuse.

Now I'm thinking ... Imagine how convenient it would be if the scales were built into the oven! I switched on the button "Bookmark products" and filled everything into the stove exactly by grams. True, then there would be a chance to get dirty inside ...
anemona
For me, it would probably be useful to be able to pause and lengthen the proving and baking programs. In the main recipe, this time is mechanically calculated, but in life, well, you just want to let it rise a little more) or bake it a little more ... and there is no time to get into dances with various programs every day

perfect .... white, of course, is universal in the kitchen, but ....... the oven is big enough, and the kitchen is rather small ... the color is bigger and bolder !!!
ritik28
to anemona
thanks for the answer.

and how is the silver color? on the one hand, universal, but not white either ...

but about lengthening the time, this is the same as the ability to compose your own programs, right?
lina
Basic, basic dough, pizza and dumplings - the most popular modes for me. Baking mode. Perhaps sweet bread would be helpful. French is almost never used, rye is not used at all, but these are personal tastes. Fast - if only for quick bread from Elena Bo, or when I'm wise with modes. Programming is sometimes very lacking There is not enough timer for the dough. The second bucket is round, for cake and for a change - but this is so, love for dishes. I don’t need a window, while the kneading is all the same, I’ll get in like that. When choosing a stove, there was one of the critical moments - a plastic or metal spatula, plastic does not inspire confidence.I would like to have models for different weights - I would have 300 grams of flour, and someone for 1.3 kg. But I wonder if it is possible to make a front-loaded HP? Only then how to keep an eye on the dough and correct it?
And also the instruction should be completely different ... About the bun, grams-milliliters, the ability to bake with live yeast, etc. - for beginners who are afraid to experiment and are faced with yeast dough for the first time. Admin has already written the manual, you can try to buy from her)))
anemona
ritik28

Programming is a very useful function! But it is difficult for a beginner to compose his own program. It is even difficult to understand what should be lengthened and what should be reduced. I think with horror that one day I will have to program a recipe !!! ETOGES what kind of nightmarish work do you need to do? study the instructions for programming the stove, study the recipe, think over everything from and to .... and this is in the absence of experience in working with the stove and in baking skills))) I am even afraid to imagine the result of such a process.

For professionals, the oven is only to help, but it is the beginners ... who buy the ovens, because the bread and pastries themselves do not work ... Thanks to this site !!! I learned a lot of useful things for myself, a low bow to the participants. But not all stove owners have such an opportunity to thoughtfully and indefinitely rummage through the topics in search of an answer to their question - take at least the topic about yeast.

I agree with the "course of a young fighter", having raised all 8 hands of my family !!!!
and even in stages - "for beginners" "expanding the range" "for professionals" "masterpieces"))) but this is so, dreams, of course

Silver is certainly not as boring as white. But why not take vanilla, pale olive, or ..... there are many universal shades that will look more advantageous than white in any kitchen. A combination of colors, like on teapots, for example, will again bring variety to everyday life))
Anuta71
good pause
and so that the bucket is sold separately (just in case), and also a round bucket in addition (somehow you want a round cake).
Mueslik
Quote: ritik28


but about lengthening the time, this is the same as the ability to compose your own programs, right?
ritik28 - it is in its pure form just a pause, which can be put on any mode at any time, if you put a pause during the ascent, the ascent time simply increases, you remove the pause, the program goes on. Convenient for those who do not want to bother with their program, or the dough did not fit well, and baking is about to start
You can bake a little on the built-in mode - just baking
And the color, well, just not white, I like the combination: silver-black
and the idea of ​​multi-colored HP in pastel shades is also good
The shape of the second bucket - it would be nice to have two small ones connected together, you can bake two small ones with different additives
Mueslik
Quote: anemona

Programming is a very useful function! But it is difficult for a beginner to compose his own program. It is even difficult to understand what should be lengthened and what should be reduced. I think with horror that one day I will have to program a recipe !!! ETOGES what kind of nightmarish work you need to do? study the instructions for programming the stove, study the recipe, think over everything from and to .... and this is in the absence of experience in working with the stove and in baking skills))) I am even afraid to imagine the result of such a process.
anemona, so no one forces beginners to program the stove - first you can bake on native built-in programs
and then, having gained experience, you will definitely want to have programming - and you will already have it!
ritik28
Anuta71, thanks for the answer. we will think about the bucket.
Mueslik, I realized about the pause. in principle, it is easy to implement and clearly a necessary thing. thanks for the explanation.
Rem
Think of the blade material - Teflon on the current alloy doesn't hold well. You can do it without teflon, you can only think of it so that the dough does not stick. It's real.
And also consider fixing the blade on the shaft.
anemona
Here Mueslik expressed more precisely what I wanted to say)) it was the pause-extension of the main program.
aynat
Here, I remembered yet.If you make a program for rye bread, it would be nice to add a special rye spatula, ala, as in Panasonic. I, however, have no regime, no special. scapula, and suddenly it is really important, it's not for nothing that there is such a scapula.

And the most important thing in an ideal bread maker is the modes themselves. Here at Kenwood, for example, different models have different kneading / proofing times (in the same programs, they are experimenting on us or something), and Panasonic, as I recently read, has one batch in all programs. But how is it CORRECT? one batch or not one? .... Or is it all the same? ... Here Admin so coolly painted all the stages of preparation of the dough, what stage occurs (chemical processes in the dough), so there are exactly 2 mixes like it was mentioned, but in Panas one and nothing, everyone praises her, so how is it right and perfect?
ritik28
Quote: aynat

Here, I remembered yet. If you make a program for rye bread, it would be nice to add a special rye spatula, ala, as in Panasonic. I, however, have no regime or special. scapula, and suddenly it is really important, it's not for nothing that there is such a scapula.

And the most important thing in an ideal bread maker is the modes themselves. Here at Kenwood, for example, different models have different kneading / proofing times (in the same programs, they are experimenting on us or something), and Panasonic, as I recently read, has one batch in all programs. But how is it CORRECT? one batch or not one? ... Or is it all the same? ... Here Admin so coolly painted all the stages of preparation of the dough, what stage occurs (chemical processes in the dough), so there are exactly 2 mixes like it was mentioned, but in Panas one and nothing, everyone praises her, so how is it right and perfect?

Well, in general, an interesting question about the batch.
perhaps Kenwood just wants to give a choice, and Panasonic found the perfect one.

I would prefer Kenwood if I liked to experiment and Panasonic if I was only interested in the result!
Lenusya
There are 2 mixes in Panasonic.
And for experiments, then DeLongy was already programmable, although experiments with recipes can be carried out with any HP, and there is such a topic on the forum:
how to program a regular bread maker
https://Mcooker-en.icdself.com/index.php@option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=3082.0
aynat
Quote: Lenusya

There are 2 mixes in Panasonic.

Maybe you are confusing the second batch with a kneading? But I will not argue, you know better - you have Panasonic, not me ... I just wrote about one batch based on the instructions for Panasonic-255, and also based on the answer in the topic "2 batch"

Quote: Bello4ka

At the expense of the second kneading ... there is no kneading itself as such ... but there is a kneading about an hour before baking (on the main program)

She answered the same and Elena BO

In the instructions for Panasonic, on almost all programs (except for pizza) there are stages - equalizing the temperature - kneading - raising - baking. Kenwood has 2 kneads on all programs (except for the dough), a kneading well and, accordingly, 3 rises of dough between them. And additional bookmark. ingredients happening in my HP for 2 full kneading, Panasonic has it 5 minutes before the end of the batch ...
Zest
aynat

do not mislead people about Panasonic))
Lenusya not the first time married and does not confuse kneading with a kneading))
Lenusya
many do not pay attention to a short break between batches of 3-5 minutes, more precisely I will not say - I did not notice it. at the beginning of the second batch, the dispenser is triggered if the appropriate mode is set. And there is not one fit, but two on the main program, 1 hour 50 minutes and 1 hour 30 minutes before the end of the program (with preheating 60 minutes). And the instructions give the total time for kneading, separately for proofing and baking, since it directly depends on the time spent on warming up (25 or 60 minutes).

By the way, in Ski, the signal for adding additives is heard 8 minutes (if I'm not mistaken) before the end of the second batch and on the main program, rest between batches is 5 minutes.

PS: Zest, thanks for the support
I have no doubt that I can tell the difference between kneading and kneading
aynat
I apologize to all Panasonic owners, I was wrong, it's just that other manufacturers have written a specific time for each stage, and not a general one. And I have a break of 10 to 40 minutes between batches on different programs ...
All the same, the strong difference in programs is confusing, because there must be some PERFECT program, well, for example the main one ...
Lenusya
Probably, different manufacturers have their own idea of ​​the ideal main program
Zest
Quote: Lenusya

many do not pay attention to a short break between batches of 3-5 minutes, more precisely I will not say - I did not notice it. at the beginning of the second batch, the dispenser is triggered if the appropriate mode is set. And there is not one fit, but two on the main program, 1 hour 50 minutes and 1 hour 30 minutes before the end of the program (with preheating 60 minutes). And the instructions give the total time for kneading, separately for proofing and baking, since it directly depends on the time spent on warming up (25 or 60 minutes).

everything is exactly that)) Of course, it would not hurt them to describe in more detail the course of events within each program in the instructions, at the very beginning of communication with the stove, ignorance of these things greatly interfered. I could grease the roof and sprinkle it with seeds after the first workout (unaware of the presence of a second one), and then watch how all my beauty slides to its sides

Quote: aynat

All the same, the strong difference in programs is confusing, because there must be some PERFECT program, well, for example the main one ...

Ideal the program will be only if you independently monitor the kneading, finish it when the dough has reached the desired condition, and this depends on many factors; independently monitor the rise of the dough (and this also depends not only on the temperature in your kitchen and the ingredients that you added to the dough, but also on a bunch of other things), independently monitor the baking ... Oven manufacturers cannot create an ideal program for each individual kitchen, food and temperature conditions, try to only somehow average out all the initial ones in order to achieve a positive result with the least number of failures. Panasonic has so far come closest to the ideal, if only by the fact that it adjusts the rise time depending on the ambient temperature.
lina
Where can he go, the second batch ... I said above - the instructions are good for beginners. The preheating time is also very good for raising the dough)))
NataliaK
And I would recommend that manufacturers pay special attention to fastening the bucket in the stove, fastening the shaft for the spatula, because many are faced with problems on these issues, you just have to go through the "Operation" topic! Judging by the reviews, Panasonic took more care of those who exploit its products.
When I had Mulinex and I made jam in it, then after that I had to part with it, first for service, then due to a long lack of parts for repairs - replacing the stove with another. Now I'm afraid to make jam in a new one, although the quality of the product is super! But it was very expensive, even with health such problems due to walking in the throes of service ...
In my opinion, the manufacturer should also think about and moderately reduce the cost of production so that the products are of high quality and can be bought without complaints.
And if you take into account all that the girls wrote - a dream!
bugai
The oven does not see the level of dough rising! at least mine! but this can be solved and I think in our age of high technologies it is very simple! There are a bunch of sensors and volume and a stupid beam above the bucket or into the bucket from the lid with a distance measurement, that is, so that the stove knows how much the dough has risen from it, thereby giving more time to rise, or vice versa, start baking!
This will create an ideal basic program, since different flours, yeasts and temperatures influence the rise! the stove will become smarter and it will have eyes, and we will leave our mouth for ourselves to eat bread!
PS The programming function is very necessary for yourself!
Evgeniya61
A fast program is still needed.When you bake bread with kefir or buttermilk, it is essential.

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